news Zetor TIER 4 final stage emissions ??

at page 9 of this Huss emission technology magazine is something written about Zetor :

HUSS Magazine 9_EN

HUSS Group magazine, 2nd quarter 2011. Exhaust after treatment solutions worldwide. Zetor IIIB and IV project, Frankfurt fire brigade retrofits, TRU market review and the DOE school buses retrofit project in New York.

issuu.com

They have contracts to supply the DPF for TIER 4 final as well. That would probably mean in 2014 they add a new exhaust pipe with integrated AdBlue kat behind the DPF.

In the 100-175hp class they must reduce from 3.3 to 0.4g/kwh Nox so they can probably do this with just adding SCR and not wasting the engine responsiveness with more EGR... John Deere in the +175hp class (NoX emission in TIER 3B of 2gr/kwh, so quite lower than the 100-175hp class in which Zetor is operating) needs two turbos (a fixed plus a VGT which keeps getting stuck from EGR soot) in order to keep a little responsiveness, and their EGR rates need a throttle valve to squeeze the fresh air so the exhaust gas is able to enter the intake manifold... All in all a lot of pressure loss and additional cooling capacity required, while the fuel consumption is higher than any other competitor.

It is my assumption that Zetor adds SCR to the current engine, and all other parameters remain the same. With a mechanical fuel pump you dont have many options of providing multiple injections in order to reduce NoX and soot, and a mechanical fuel pump doesnt allow to gradually ramp up the fuel injection to let the turbo spool up, so they just need the DPF. An EGR only solution is not possible, that strategy allmost bankrupted Navistar trucks (USA) because of warranty claims, and after a change of management they are now developing SCR whilst paying a fine for every non-compliant truck they build right now untill they have compliant engines again... Navistar Expected to Alter Course - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304708604577503292076655510.html

So i think there wont be a lot of news for 09/2014 because SCR is inevitable even for John Deere with its shitload of junk they added to the engine, (they had to give in to SCR in the end, but not before highly increasing the complexity and cost of their engines in order to postpone SCR un the +175hp class for 3 more years, and no further gain at all) and Zetor already signed a contract for DPF supplies in the TIER 4 final...

So by the looks of things its going to be the current EGR-DPF with mechanical fuel injection engine, with SCR added for TIER 4f, or will they use the Motorpal common rail system to reduce soot, so they can go with a maintenance free SCR-DOC system like New Holland ? I dont think they have the time for such a change of strategy at this time (last minute change of strategy is the same reason why JD's TIER 4F engines are so complex while basically using the same technologies as others)

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[international]

EGR route had only a limited time as it really was american managed companies that pushed for this solution i guess that,s what,s happen when add blue is more expensive then the diesel the engine is burning. One can never tell what compines are up to but hopefully zetor has common rail in the pipe line and seen the mistakes that other larger manufactures have come across and corrected while incorperating into there second and third generation injection system While Navistar after there construction and agri collaspe in the eighties really have not produced much for the world wide market and where more corcerned about there share price and miltary contracts Still they have a good RD department and with right managment hopefully will come good.

 

[Renze]

Well internationalXL i dont really care which route Zetor is taking... advanced SCR with advanced common rail has its virtues, but mechanical injection with light EGR, DPF and SCR also has its virtues.

They would just shoot themself in the foot if they took the same approach as JD and CAT with heavy EGR.... Not that Zetor would decide their course upon what some Zetorworld guys are thinking, but besides purely technical arguments, its good to know what the market thinks...

Just as long as they dont make the same mistake as JD, Cat and Navistar: AdBlue is here to stay, and we have to get the most efficient solution around an SCR system...

 

[Renze]

Next to that, i guess Zetor will learn pretty soon about the consequences of the use of classic mineral oil in engines equipped with these soot filters.... Even in the high-end construction business, people dont make sure to use low-ash engine oils in DPF equipped engines, which has caused big replacement costs already...

If people fail to use the prescribed low ash engine oil and low sulfur diesel, they are angry when the consequences arise after a couple of thousand engine hours. SCR-DOC is a solution with way lower maintenance problems, keeping AdBlue filled up is a no-brainer, but many people dont check if the specifications of engine oil meets the needs of a DPF equipped engine...

 

[alan]

States to use low ash engine oil in dpf equiped engines in the operators manual , it is up to the dealer to point this out when he delivers the tractor to the customer.
OIL FOR ZETOR ENGINES EQUIPPED WITH DIESEL PARTICLE FILTER
SPECIFICATION OF OILS FOR ZETOR ENGINES EQUIPPED BY DIESEL PARTICLE
FILTER
Classification
ACEA
Viscosity class
SAE
Performance class
API
E9/E7 10W-40 API CJ-4/SM

 

[Renze]

Yes they have undoubtedly written it in the service manuals , but even fleetowners of construction machinery have failed to take care of it and blown a lot of money on DPF's that went bad.
low ash oil with soot filters, is equally important as using JD HyGard coolant fluid in JD engines, because only HyGard has an additive that prevents the injector cooling jackets from corroding away... I am kinda old school, so i tend to label that an engineering error... But given the pace of development engine builders are faced with by emission standards, lets give them some slack

Off course its a matter of choosing between a rock and a hard place, because no matter which combination of technology a manufacturer chooses, TIER 4 means a complication of design and maintenance. Its just that the fuel consumption can be reduced if the engine is tuned for efficient combustion at high temperatures, resulting in more NoX and little soot, when SCR is used to reduce NoX in the exhaust. EGR may be required because the average SCR system has an efficiency of about 80% which is often just not enough, but using a throttle valve to create exhaust backpressure in order to get the EGR air to flow to the intake manifold, and using series turbocharging to overcome this backpressure, is just not the right way: In practice AdBlue is cheaper than fuel, not what JD and CAT were thinking a few years ago (but still spin-talking it so)

===edit: removed something that now turns out to be salesman banter, which he cannot substantiate===

This is a nice writing, if you put it in perspective with the knowledge of today:
http://www.discoverdef.com/news /2010/3/24/cummins-splits-with-navistar-over-scr-choice/ In 2010 Navistar quit Cummins because they wanted to use SCR, and went to Cat (who backed out of the on-road market) for a bare block of the C15 engine, on which Navistar would build a non-SCR EPA 2010 engine. They failed, used up all their emission credits and the epa gave them slack by fining them for every non-compliant engine, but after the management got kicked out and replaced, Navistar is celebrating its first emission compliant vehicle, using the Cummins ISX 15 again, while SCR based Navistar maxxforce 10 and 13 are under development with Cummins technology...
http://www.discoverdef.com/news/2012/11/16/navistar-announces-completion-of-first-selective-catalytic-reduction-%28scr%29-equipped-vehicle/
Oh yes, Cummins is their saviour or they would have gone bankrupt.

 

[international]

Was wondering would twin scroll turbo be a runner in the zetor 4 cylinder in the future while holding on to the inline diesel pump

 

[Renze]

Interesting things: the suppliers of SCR engines cannot guarantee that their SCR engine (in standard industrial configuration) will have the right throttle response for a wheel loader: wheel loaders are revving their engines constantly at every change of travel direction. Manufacturers with TIER 4F engines with a passive regenerating soot filter like Cummins and Deutz, WILL warrant the load response, because their soot filters can catch the acceleration smoke.
So far, Deere is the only TIER 4F engine with an active regenerating soot filter... Though they DID introduce an EGR/SCR/DOC engine series of 85-140hp without a DPF and with just a waste gate turbo, because of installation ease in compact machinery... I wonder how long it takes before they take it all the way with less EGR simpler air management and a smaller cooler package...

For Zetor , i hope that when they get SCR on the TIER 4 engines, they can go back to a different shade of DPF thats less sensitive to some amount of sulphur in fuel or engine oil additives like Deutz or Cummins, to get the best load response and acceleration, with the least amount of fuel and oil sensitivity and the least amount of technology...

the EU is discussing a TIER 5 emission stage, which will be about particulate COUNT instead of WEIGHT, which will make a soot filter inevitable anyhow.. It seems that no matter how we dislike this shit that adds reliability issues on our engines, we cant get around it without making concessions to performance...

From what i gather from all investigated manufacturers, there is an efficient way to build an engine with SCR, DPF and EGR with a simple turbo, if EGR is used at low engine loads, DPF to catch the acceleration smoke, and an SCR system that jumps in to catch all NoX peaks during transient operation when the simple (but reliable) air management cant cover it....

Too much EGR will cause lots of soot, and lots of pumping losses because it will need throttle valves to force the EGR air back in = poor efficiency. No EGR means very precise injection (Common rail to achieve that) while slowly advancing the fuel injection rate during a stepload or acceleration event. Lots of research would be required to map the injection parameters with the operation conditions. Zetor nor Motorpal has that experience (yet)

Ideal would be EGR to reduce AdBlue consumption,a soot filter to catch the smoke during acceleration, and a NoX system to cover up all the discrepancies in the EGR system NoX reducing functionality. It will provide the best engine performance under all conditions while cutting the R&D budget because its easier to achieve... I think thats the road Zetor already pointed out and is walking behind the scenes right now...

 

[Renze]

Just found this on Zetor .cz

http://www.zetor.com/environment

They will use AdBlue, soot filter, proportional EGR valve and common rail for T4F. plenty of development work to do for them, to get this up and running in the 4th quarter of 2014...

Common rail has been under development for quite some time now at Motorpal, they wanted it already for T4 interim (stage 3B) but it appears they postponed it to T4F (stage 4)

http://www.motorpal.cz/media/PDF/COMMON_RAIL_Motorpal_ENG_2011.pdf