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Small bale haylage?

Finland arctic003

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Hi

Does anyone have any experience of making small bale haylage - by wrapping bales from a conventional baler? How does the process work exactly? Is the hay tedded at all before baling, or is it just wilted? Is there any ensiling agent / inoculant used? Do the wrapping machines work well? Anything else I should be asking? ;)

Thanks!

003


 
Hello Arctic

I think that system works fine. Except the hay must be quite a dry before baling, this because traditional hay baler doesnt work properly with wet hay. Wrapping is easy to do with special wrapper that is designed for smaller bales. But..... those wrappers are more expensive what "standard" wrappers are. If you have some engineering skills you cand do the machine with your self..

Cutting before baling is best to do with mower with crusher and you have to let it dry about 2 shiny days.

I dont know did this help you at all. ???


 
Quote: If you have some engineering skills you cand do the machine with your self..

Now that has got me interested! How do these things work? How is the bale held? Is there anywhere I can see plans for one of these?

Thanks very much

003
 
Im little busy now. (We are making silage around the southern finland and making some earth mowing works) But if you dont have a hurry I think we can find easy solution how to make simply and cheap wrapper.......

Im just wondering.... how many bales are you going to do each year? 100, 1000, 5000????? If you do max 1000 bales the machine can be really simply......


 
Hi Markku

Well I currently use about 1500 bales of dry hay per year for our own horses, but on top of that I'm looking at ways to expand my productivity so that I can try if possible to get some sort of living from farming (I don't know if that's possible, but...).

I'm looking at ways to increase my working season as long as possible, and also for a good product that will be of use to other horse owners.

Anyway let's be in touch, when you are less busy.

All the best

003
 
Arctic,

Hay moisture content = 15% or less
Haylage moisture content = 50%
Silage moisture content = 70%+

I would have thought that people only made haylage when it was not possible to make hay (too wet). There is a lot of info on haylage and horses on the net e.g. search google.com

From a practical point of view, you would have to use round bale silage wrappers to wrap the haylage bales. You mention "small bale haylage". If you mean the rectangular bales, it would not be ecconomic to individually wrap these. Also, I have never seen a small bale wrapper.

Haylage is a compromise as far as I can see.

TomZ
Tomwhere we don't have to make haylage because the sun always shines:D[/]

 
Hi Tom!

Here's one:

http://www.farmstar.co.uk/sbw995mini.htm

The Mc Hale 995LM mini linkage bale wrapper is designed to wrap small square bales from a conventional square baler.

I have done lots of web searches looking for information about haylage but I haven't found quite enough yet to enable me to be confident in making my own. For example, I still haven't found out if any ensiling agent is used, or how to apply it in the case of using a conventional baler.

The Agronic miniature round baler / wrapper combiniation is shown with an acid bottle mounted on the side at
http://www.agronic.fi/en/tuotekuvat/minipaalain/minicombi-loads-02.htm
but I don't know if that's used for haylage, or just silage.

There seems to be a big market for haylage here judging by the number of posts on Finnish horsey message boards and forums asking where it can be obtained. It is supposed to be extremely palatable and nutritious and is also dust free, which is a really big plus. Breathing problems seem to be fairly common here in older horses, and it's something that people are becoming more aware of.

Best Regards

003

 
Arctic, (I'd better put my head down when typing this...)

Re http://www.farmstar.co.uk/sbw995mini.htm
The Mc Hale 995LM mini linkage bale wrapper is designed to wrap small square bales from a conventional square baler.
>>> This is embarassing!![/][/]!:mad: The McHale machines are built not 10km from where I live! In saying that however, I have never seen one of these mini bale wrappers. Some machines are manufactured for certain markets e.g. Australia and are not available in the home market.

I have done lots of web searches looking for information about haylage but I haven't found quite enough yet to enable me to be confident in making my own. For example, I still haven't found out if any ensiling agent is used, or how to apply it in the case of using a conventional baler.
>>> Try these links:
www.haylage.net
www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/livestock/horses/facts/info_haylage.htm
www.h-stocks-son.co.uk/main_data/haylage.htm

The Agronic miniature round baler / wrapper combiniation is shown with an acid bottle mounted on the side at
http://www.agronic.fi/en/tuotekuvat/minipaalain/minicombi-loads-02.htm
but I don't know if that's used for haylage, or just silage.
>>> The last link states: "An inoculant can also be applied to help the fermentation process take place quicker and reduce the risk of waste".[/]

There seems to be a big market for haylage here judging by the number of posts on Finnish horsey message boards and forums asking where it can be obtained. It is supposed to be extremely palatable and nutritious and is also dust free, which is a really big plus. Breathing problems seem to be fairly common here in older horses, and it's something that people are becoming more aware of.
>>> The last link above also confirms these points.

TomZ
Tom
 
I know some people who earn their living by making a haylage for horses. And after summers like this, there is lots of markets for good hay and haylage.

I know also some manufacturers who make small wrappers, but those are VERY expensive machines. But the machine is quite a simply....

It is true that there is much of costs when making haylage. But it is efficent when we are thinking quality risks and we start calculate some euros for our working hours..........

Horse owners doesnt want round bales....... those would be something....
 
<<< Horse owners doesnt want round bales....... those would be something....

Yeah, there are a couple of problems with round bales for the average horse owner, Firstly Nutty the New Forest pony isn't going to be able to eat a whole one before it goes bad, and Jilly Junior-Rider and her mum are going to have a real struggle to get the 1000Kg bale out of the back of what's left of Daddy's Volvo.

Small square bales of haylage would obviously be heavier than bales of dry hay, but I imagine they would still be manageable by kids and women (you know, weak people ;) )

Looking at the pictures of the McHale machine I can get some kind of idea how it works. I wonder if it would be simpler to have the bale roller-deck fixed, and the film dispenser on an arm that rotates around the bale?

Tom, thanks for taking the trouble to find those links for me - I'm going to check them out right away.

All the best

003


 
The problem is that rotating arm is more expensive to build than rotating board. Except the arm comes from up, but then you must use more expensive hydraulics. Rotating board system you dont need hydraulics at all!!!!! And if you use hydraulic rotating for board you can use the second hand components.

Try find pictures of Elho wrappers type Elho silomatic 510 and 1010 or was them 520 and 1020. Those are made for round bales but there is available kit for wrapping square bales too. Machine like 510 is so simply you can ever do. You need just smaller version with electric use.


 
Hi

I have just done a google image search on mini bale wrappers and have found the following:

http://www.reco.co.uk/mbw.html

43.gif


Then there are pictures of the McHale machine, for example

995lm.jpg


I haven't found a picture of a simple Elho machine though, are they anything like those above?

I've been trying to think of a clever way to gear the rollers from the turntable - so that I'd only need one motor / rotator.

Perhaps the dispenser / prestretcher could come from a unit designed for wrapping fork-lift pallets?

I can feel a winter project taking shape...
(Sorry to use the "w" word already ;) )

003




 
Only a fast idea I got, is it possible to convert a regular packing machine for stretch film. Maybe it should go to lift the bale with a small timber crane up to the machine and from the machine to the transport or something. But it can be too slowly. It was when I was thinking that small bales looks like a box and for that I think you can find any type of machine. There can be a problem to rotate the bale to get film over all sides, when they put film on an europall they get the film only around, not all sides, so there are a problem I think so maybe the idea not was so good.

Regards Tage W.
 
...I havent had much time to keep an eye on every post, but my brother would find this interesting...
He conciders buying a small square wrapper to to some contracting..

The miniature timber crane sounds like a good idea, so you can lift them on the wrapper, and then on a flat wagon pulled behind the wrapper, wrap and collect in one pass..:)
 
Looking at the pictures of the McHale machine I can get some kind of idea how it works. I wonder if it would be simpler to have the bale roller-deck fixed, and the film dispenser on an arm that rotates around the bale?
The McHale range is at www.mchale.net You can download an excellent "Baled Silage Guide" which includes info on square bales and haylage.

"...bale roller-deck fixed" - The reason that the roller deck rotates is that it allows the entire surface to be presented to the film and thus the entire bale wrapped. This gives a nice airtight overlap wrap.

TomZ
Tom
 
TageW, yes I think I could incorporate parts of a commercial pallet wrapper into the design - or even at its simplest, mount one of those small pre-stretcher units that are intended for wrapping forklift pallets by hand.

As I'm thinking of a wrapper for small square bales I don't think that there will be any lifting action needed at least in the Mk1 version.

From reading the McHale baled silage guide (Thanks Tom :) ) it seems that I really need to wrap the bales ASAP, so I'd be wrapping them there in the field rather than loading them and transporting them here (home) to a stationary machine - that would mean some of the bales would be unwrapped for many hours.

We have a second tractor - a 1952 (mostly) Fordson Major - that could mount the wrapper to and follow the baler round with the driver hopping on and off to wrap the bales. It doesn't sound very efficient but it would get us started.

Tom - isn't it the same - thinking relative motion - if the table rotates relative to a fixed film dispenser, or if the film dispenser rotates around the table? In both cases the bale also rotates along its long axis on the rollers, so isn't the effect the same?

One reason I had for considering a separate motor for working a rotating arm that holds the film dispenser is that it might be easier to get the timing (and therefore the film overlap) correct.

A much neater solution would be to rotate the table (rotation about the vertical axis) using a hydraulic rotor, or mechanical linkage to pto, and gear the bale rollers (rotation about bale horizontal axis) via a stationary crown gear concentric with the axis of the hydraulic rotor. BUT this would mean that the required turns ratio between the two rotational axes woluld need to be determined in advance.

Now, in theory that sounds easy. If we wanted a 50% overlap, that would obviously mean that by the time the table had rotated 360 degrees, the bale rollers should have turned the bale about 12cm at the edge, assuming 25cm wide film. Now a bale is about 130cm circumference, so it should therefore be made to rotate about 36-ish degrees on its axis for every revolution of the table.

However, years of bitter experience have taught me that nothing is as straightforward as the theory suggests (or then I'm a rotten theorist :( ) so for the prototype, I'd rather make something where I could control both axes of rotation independantly...

As an aside, if the calculations above are right, then after about ten turns of the table our bale has a complete wrap at 50% overlap, in other words any point on the bale is covered with two thicknesses of film (I know, the ends are going to have more). The McHale silage guide suggests 6 or 7 layers per bale, so that's a minimum 30 turns of the table. Now I've no idea how fast such a machine could be made to run without tearing the film, but assuming say 60rpm (too fast??) that would give 30 seconds wrapping time per bale, add another 30 sec for mounting, attaching the film, cutting and dismounting, that's one minute per bale, now lets say we have 2000 bales to wrap, 2000 minutes then - that's 33 hours. :(
 
Max rev for bale depence of palstic widness... For 750 wide film about 20 revs/minute, 500 about 25 and 25 about..... I dont know.

This is because the air must have time to get off between stretch film laps. I would say max 30 to 40 revs/minute is quite a near when using 250 film.

But Im not sure....
 
Ok then, 66 hours. :(
Sounds like many days of baling and wrapping. Still, if we can sell them for a realistic price it's worth it...
 
Must it be wrapped in film, maybe vacuumpacking machine should be useful. On my job at the telephone company I have seen both Nokia and Ericsson are using vacuumpack for big boxes. The price for that type could be much expensive maybe, I dont know. That was one of mine crazy ideas again, but I think we need new ideas for the farming here up in the north.

Regards Tage W.
 
My brother is looking at this machine, with load arm:
http://www.gebrknoll.nl/product/tawi/tawinfo_uk.html
 
Renze, that's an interesting looking machine...

Tage W - an interesting point. I wondered also about dropping the bales into individual sealable bags, and sucking the air out with a milking machine...

003

 
Hmm......

We were one of the first farmers in Finland who started to make a silage with round baler and wrapping system. I cant remember the year :( Anyway, before that the silage were made with round baler and huge palstic bags. Bale was putted into back tighty and bag closed carefully. This system wasnt good because the silage did not be good enough.

We packed allso very dry silage (haylage) vacuum packs for pets, but those (1 to 2 kg packages) did stay without ruining about 2 weeks only69)

I doubt the vacuum packing, but I am not totally sure. Somebody should be brave and try it!

And if somebody does try it tell me how it works.
 
Here's an idea that might save me some time in the production process...

Would it work if I had a contractor make conventional big round bales of haylage for me in the field, and then when I had a customer for haylage, break one open at home and then immediately re-bale it with small square baler and wrap straight away with my winter-project home wrapping system?

Or would the re-wrapped haylage go bad too quickly?

Thanks!

003
 
Arctic,

I think the re-baled, re-wrapped silage will rot and mold, because there is too much oxygen getting into it during the breakup of the bale.


The Tawi, i believ eit is a Finnish machine ??
 
Hi

I cant find any references to the TAWI machine - at least via google or altavista - apart from the site you gave. I have a feeling that if it was Finnish there would be more information about it available on the net.

Agronic and ELHO products are definately Finnish, however...
 
Hi guys, I bale and wrap about 10,000 small square bales of halyage a year. A year with a good summer its a few thousand less and wet seasons its more as people can not get their hay made conventionally. I use a McHale wrapper, and anyone thinking of the film turning round the bale is on the wrong track. You need a real heavy dense bale for it to sit on the wrapper. Light small bales fly off and are hard and slow to wrap. Make them big and heavy, and hold them on and screw up the hydraulics to spin the table faster.
I have wrapped 1000 in a day but there was 3 of us and the work is a killer, lifting them from the field, lifting them onto the wrapper then off again.
Horse folk love them as they dont smell and are never dusty so even in good summers they are popular, plus you can store them outside all winter freeing up barns.
A 40HP tractor drives the wrapper no problems off a return spool valve and a electronic clock/counter same as the mcHale big wrappers is used to control the number of turns and wraps.
 
here is something i found on you tube so they are out there. mchale make a small square bale wrapper but i dont think its in line, you load the machine by hand which would too much like work, the inline machine in the video is the buisness!:cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfuJuS8Z7Lo&NR=1
 
sometime in the early 70's my father got hold of some thick plastic bags that took a conventional bale and were sealed with wire ties. first year we followed the insructions and baled behind the mower and bagged in the field... the cattle liked the end result but each bag had a couple of gallons of smelly liquid in it, the second year we reused the dirty bags with a couple of days wilt which cured the liquid problem. the bales were still a 2 man lift though. we carried on for a couple of years with the grass in a small orchard where it was impossible to make hay. we gave up on the system because of the manual handling. our international b46 baler handled the bales ok

later i used a farmhand 804 belt type round baler for bagged and wrapped silage , that would produce bales of any diameter upto 5 foot, we always stuck with 4 foot cos that was the size the bags were and later the biggest that the contractors wrapper could handle... and the massey 35 and hornhraulic loader struggled to lift a wet one.


you do now occasionally see small bale wrappers on ebay, but i would say you need some sort of sqeeze type handler on a front loader to handle the bales.... but we always used a simple spike for the big bales with patches or tape to seal the holes.
 
These old Far balers like this one http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.broad-agri.co.uk/images/uploads/Deutz%2520HD440%2520baler.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.broad-agri.co.uk/list.cfm%3Fcat%3D2&usg=__S_XYMW5HlJ2-nl7b6DbglTPQbHU=&h=426&w=568&sz=97&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=mcMyxBu6wwhytM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=206&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfahr%2Bbaler%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D610%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=360&vpy=253&dur=1254&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=200&ty=106&ei=pEl6TMj9CMbm4gbWmd3rBQ&oei=pEl6TMj9CMbm4gbWmd3rBQ&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:0

are the best to use as they have a slip clutch instead of a shear bolt
 
This post was started in 2004 and got no replies till 2010 a six year gap and none till now eight year gap, there a contractor near me specialising in small bale haylage for the horse market, they use the grass to produce the bales.
 

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