Diesel pump reconditioning?

[sih]

Hi all,
After wipping the heads off my 5711,decoking and re seating the valves,it still smokes black smoke like a good`un.
Looks like the pump needs an overhaul doesnt it?-anyone know the scary going rate for one of these? I`ll probably take it back to England to get done.
Any opinions/advice welcome!

 

[bjarne_iversen]

You migt shold try cleaning the airfilter first and chec that your coldstart buton is not stuck in on posisjon.you cold also hav the injectors chect for preshure.

 

[sih]

Thanks for that 4911Bjarne -I`ll give it a go!
All the best.

 

[Renze]

its easier to get a used one, might be even cheaper to buy a new one.

 

[sih]

Really? What sort of pices can they be bought for? I`m going to have to get one-not only is the thing getting through fuel like crazy,but its smoke plume is something like a volcanoe gives off!Mind you,the thing has been sat for a few years.A freind has told me to work it hard-perhaps the governor isnt working properly???
Cheers.

 

[Renze]

Best thing to start (after having checked the air cleaner):

Take out the fuel injectors, untighten the fuel lines so you can turn them around without bending the lines, and screw the injectors to the fuel lines while they are not mounted in the cylinder heads.

Then crank the engine, and see what the fuel nozzles spray like. They should spray nice cones of droplet mist.

If one or more injectors just splat instead of spray, replace it.
It is a cheap and easy way to check the fuel system.

Birds and mice tend to like nesting inside rubber tubing, air cleanders etcetera...

The lower dish of the air cleaner should be filled with oil , there is a mark stamped in somewher at the side.

 

[sih]

Thanks for that Renze. I`ve already tried running the engine with it breathing fresh air straight into th manifold-no difference unfortunately.Also,After I decoked the heads and before I ran the engine,I did just as you say-remove the injectors from the heads,and reconnect them to test them-all that happened was number 2 injector was the only one jetting fuel (and not mist at that).I tried the other injectors on no.2`s pipe and that was the only one I could get to squirt.-even with throttle open.
When back together it seems to run on 4,but sounds like it has bit of a misfire,as does my neighbours 4712,but mine smokes hell of a lot more than his!
Many thanks.

 

[treaney]

Black smoke is caused by an over rich mixture....Injectors are most likely cause of the problem.

Does your tractor start easily? If not, then the injector pump timing may be out.

Sounds like you have done everything else.

IMHO diesel injector pumps can be very expensive to get overhauled unless you know what you are doing. I'd price a new one with Igor or one of the other venders on this site.

 

[sih]

Thanks TomZ,I hope it is the injectors.When I took them out and tested them,only no2 seemed to spray,but when all injectors were back in,they seem to work ok.How much do they cost generally?I`ll have to get some prices wont I.You dont think its the pump playing up then?
It starts well if I use the coldstart,and that disengages ok.
My neighbour seems to think its the injectors,heres hoping?

 

[zetormatic]

Are you using diesel in the tractor or heating oil / kerosene??? kerosene causes lots of black smoke and burns very fast if the tractor will run all day with out stoping there is nothing wrong with the fuel system

 

[treaney]

Sounds like you have diagnosed the problem. As Renze said earlier, if there isn't a fine mist of droplets, the injector is knackered.

As regards cost, I have never bought injectors but think that E200 yoyo's would be about right for a set of four. Igor or Ivan can give you a price.

 

[sih]

Great stuff! thanks chaps!
It is running on faouel here in France-which is red/heating diesel,which is used by everyone in their tractors,and is the same as in UK apparently.
I`ll get a set of injectors then-If one was jetiing out loads of the stuff that would account for the smoke wouldnt it-ie unburnt fuel ?
Thanks again.

 

[Renze]

The smoke doesnt say all that much about the amount of fuel injected, but rather how well this fuel mixes with air (oxygen)
If the fuel nozzles drip instead of squirting, (like when the tips of the fuel nozzles are burnt in due to excessive use of starting ether) the injected fuel cannot mix with the air, and the combustion will form smoke and carbon.

 

[internash]

Red diesel is not the same as heating oil in the uk It is cheaper to use kerosene actually. and the tractor has more power with it. I am experimenting mixing a little jet fuel to put it in my tractor puller A old engine performs better with kerosene than diesel because it is thicker and burns hotter so the engine runs better.

 

[sih]

Thanks again chaps-interesting stuff.
Hopefully having my injectors reconditioned now,so we`ll see eh!? Friends think I`ll need the pump doing too,but I hope not as 17 acres needs cutting that havnt been mowed since this time last year!
All the best.

 

[sih]

Whilst my injectors are away being looked at,I thought I`d crank the engine over to see if fuel comes out of the 4 injector pipes-it doesnt-it comes out of no.2 pipe but no others.This means the pump is up the spout doesnt it? Or is it meant to do this to start up?-where the other 3 kick in later?
Sorry for being boring!

 

[sih]

Just heard back from the injector people,who said mine were in hell of a state blocked up with crap,but they cant do anything with them as the parts are obsolete! Hopefully this isnt true!
Anyone know of where to get some and cost?
Thanks.

 

[alan]

Try Roy Perfect:- http://www.royperfect.co.uk/

 

[Renze]

try igor he sells for a good price and the mail ships within 5 days usually.

 

[sih]

Thanks Alzet,Renze!
Great stuff,Much appreciated.

 

[internash]

I got an ex-lucas worker to do my fuel pump on a landrover It cost 1 Pint of beer He liked the work i guess as well

 

[sih]

Cor! wish I had mates like that-lucky sod!
Cheers.

 

[mr. norway]

www.okonomideler.no

Injectors ca kr 170 = E 20 each

 

[treaney]

Red diesel is not the same as heating oil in the uk It is cheaper to use kerosene actually. and the tractor has more power with it. I am experimenting mixing a little jet fuel to put it in my tractor puller A old engine performs better with kerosene than diesel because it is thicker and burns hotter so the engine runs better.

This reminds me of the days when we had a Ferguson TE 20 with the petrol/TVO engine. You started her on petrol and after she had warmed up, switched over to cheaperTVO. As TVO was phased out in the 1970's, we used to make our own TVO - receipe = 1 part petrol to 4 parts parrafin (kerosene). I don't know if this is chemically correct but the tractor ran fine on it.

I never thought of using parrafin/kerosene in a diesel engine. I assumed that it the parrafin/kerosine would detonate under diesel compression pressures as opposed to burn properly????

I know that I had a major problem once with my oil fired central heating system - the oil man mistakenly put in a diesel/kerosine mix which caused it to emit tremedous black smoke. Maybe this is what is wrong with SiH's tractor?

 

[internash]

A diesel engine runs suprisingly well on heating oil It works out 18p cheaper per litre for me than red diesel Also i dont need 2 separete bulk tanks!! heres a bit of fuel science for you Tom... Crude oil (called petroleum) is the base of every fuel, It contains " hydrocarbons" that contains hydrogen and carbon (hence the name) the carbon "atoms" and hydrogen are linked together in "chains" The longer the "chain" the thicker the fuel becomes. In an oil refinery the crude oil is heated and the "chains" (fuels) are seperated as they evaporate. The shortest chains are gases like methane and propane these evaporate at low tempratures, the next is solvents. Petrol is a mixture of many fuels that evaporate at this point Next the kerosene evaporates followed by diesel then the many oils and greases are taken from the left-overs (these dont evaporate at all) So.... Kerosene is very nearly diesel This is why a diesel engine will run on it . but it does not have any lubrication added to protect the fuel system. that is the only drawback TVO "tractor - vaporising - oil" Is a mixture of petrol and paraffin ( Paraffin was cheaper than petrol in the old days) It does not need to contain kerosene but it can be used when paraffin is not available ( basically paraffin is thin kerosene) As you will now know kerosene (heating oil) is very close to diesel in the "chains" Therefore it is basically diesel!!! but DONT use white or blue lamp paraffin just normal yellow "heating oil" hope that helped TOM

 

[sih]

Thats interesting stuff. No wonder I see people here in the supermarket filling up their trollies with heating oil !
Thanks for the thoughts chaps,Hopefully get the new injectors soonish.Just about to check the injector pipes to see what crud is in there,and take a look at the fuel pump to see if its gunked up too.
Thanks again.

 

[sih]

Evening all,

Got my injectors back,took them apart,cleaned them(werent that bad!),tested jets-all jet a 5 star pattern,no spray.Put them back on,it runs better but still smoke a plenty.
Is it worth marking the pump where it is,then loosening the 3 bolts to try adjusting the timing before I order new stuff? Or am I just wasting time?!

Thanks.

 

[treaney]

Internash, your chemistry lesson was very good. It certainly put thngs into perspective.

With the move to low sulphur diesel, do the fuel manufacturers now added something else to lubricate?

 

[Renze]

Yes that's the proper way to tune the injection timing. Its not hard to do, just have it run at 1000 rpm and listen. When it runs smoothest, it's best.

 

[sih]

Thanks once again Renze,I`ll give it a go over the weekend and let you know how it goes.
All the best.