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news New Zetor Crystal... June 25th
- Thread starter Renze
- Start date
New Zetor Crystal 150 and 160 with Deutz TCD 6.1 L6 engine and Zetor HD transmission and backend.
http://www.zetor.pl/zetor-crystal[/]
http://www.zetor.pl/zetor-crystal[/]
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2003
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- 4,020
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- Laag Zuthem
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- Renze
Machinery:
1976 5718
1978 5718 35kmh: Work in progress
1967 3011
Yup, the crystal is definately up to todays industry standards. 73DB low noise level, airconditioning cab suspension and optionally front axle suspension, all the things you need for long work days. Yet no frills that give breakdowns after 10 years. Its the kind of tractor a private farmer would buy new, and keep 20 years and 12.000hrs.
Just one thing.. the hydraulic levers i dont like. The Proxima seems better, but because of the larger wheel wells there is no room for the mechanism under the cab interior panels perhaps ?
Furthermore i only have praise for both the design and the product presentation. This just has to sell !
Just one thing.. the hydraulic levers i dont like. The Proxima seems better, but because of the larger wheel wells there is no room for the mechanism under the cab interior panels perhaps ?
Furthermore i only have praise for both the design and the product presentation. This just has to sell !
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- forterra11441
i love it. but hate the red painted rims. And whats the point of making a good tractor like this and put the stupid old forterra hydraulic levers on it. levers 80 % of drivers dont like and levers that puts customers off buying a forterra. i cant believe how misplaced this feature is.
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- Jun 25, 2015
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- 11441 traclift
Isn't it, after years and years of research simply a forterra 140 HD with a Deutz 6 cilinder engine? I think it will be a small market. The 140 hd and hsx aren't that many sold off. It will have to compete with second hand New Holland or John Deere tractors. It wil have to be cheap! Its best they market them with lower lease prices than the competeters! Deutz engine is clever choice. But i think i would chose the 4 cilinder Zetor engine. Its good enough en less diesel consumption.
I have to say I agree with most of comments here,red rims aren't the end of the world I could live with that it's a nice link to crystals of old and I agree 100% about comments of fendt,it's the little things that make Such a big difference,,how difficult would it be to put in a side panel like that on hd,pop up ur mechanical levers through it grouped with ur elec.lift controls switches etc and HAND TROTTLE,do these people just stick everything in to the cab where it's easiest for them and looks like an after thought and f**k the end user,John Deere case new Holland etc r no better tractors(spare parts for them all) but controls r laid out so much better,if the user is the farmer buying the tractor he wants something comfortable to drive and spend his long days in especially when there will be no major difference in price,it's a shame everything else is almost perfect a 6pot above and below 150HD plenty of options for whatever ur thoughts on 4versus6,to ruin the tractor with something that would almost cost nothing to solve
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- Renze
Machinery:
1976 5718
1978 5718 35kmh: Work in progress
1967 3011
Well Jorgen, arrange that... I'll be happy to spend my summer holiday in Brno to change a lot of details on a tractor in a hidden shed on the Zetor premises, to be tried and tested by us both, before shown to the staff...
How we tested ergonomy in the wheel loader cab we designed, was making a scale 1 to 1 print of the CAN bus screen, stick it to the whiteboard with magnets at the correct height in relation to the office chair, then hold your hand on the imaginary button and keep it there for a minute. If you fatigue by keeping your body in that position for more than a minute whilst in a body stature which allows you to keep an eye on the road ahead, the controls are placed wrong. And customers agreed after working them for 3000hrs ! Designing intuitive controls requires intuition, not thousands of dollars of PhD studies
How we tested ergonomy in the wheel loader cab we designed, was making a scale 1 to 1 print of the CAN bus screen, stick it to the whiteboard with magnets at the correct height in relation to the office chair, then hold your hand on the imaginary button and keep it there for a minute. If you fatigue by keeping your body in that position for more than a minute whilst in a body stature which allows you to keep an eye on the road ahead, the controls are placed wrong. And customers agreed after working them for 3000hrs ! Designing intuitive controls requires intuition, not thousands of dollars of PhD studies
How long they can incrase power for URIII/Forterra axle and transmission. When it was presented 1991 r. - 9540 has 95 KM. Next 11641 in 2000 it was 116 KM, in 2010 Forterra 135 - 130 KM and now 160 KM in Crystal.
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- Renze
Machinery:
1976 5718
1978 5718 35kmh: Work in progress
1967 3011
The 10540 had three gears, the 11641 had 4 gears and the HSX has 5 gears. Because all three versions have different ratio spacings, it is safe to assume that when designing new gears, they took care of the increased torque levels too.The crystal is most likely an overdrive configuration, just like the UR2 160hp 16 speed models. With the current torque levels it should be able to take go up to 181hp with the transmission. Rumor has it that a 180hp prototype has been spotted last year. But the rear axle cant take the axle loads that come with the jobs of a 180hp tractor, just like the 16045-16245. If a heavy rear axle is developed, i think the 180hp will be released.
The trick of using different powershift or main gearbox ratios was used by Ford in the TW and by deere in the 40 series: the hi/lo of the 40 and 4240 is underdrive and it has final drives with less reduction. The 44 and 4640 had overdrive powershift and bigger final reduction in the final drives. Put 4240 final drives in a 4640 and it will fly
The trick of using different powershift or main gearbox ratios was used by Ford in the TW and by deere in the 40 series: the hi/lo of the 40 and 4240 is underdrive and it has final drives with less reduction. The 44 and 4640 had overdrive powershift and bigger final reduction in the final drives. Put 4240 final drives in a 4640 and it will fly
In my opinion there's nothing wrong with gearbox or lever position or its movements,it's just to get used to it compared to all the push button electric systems that r out there,at least it falls to hand,unlike some of the other features like the spool valves or hand throttle which u nearly have to get out of ur seat reaching forwards for,it's the same complaint people had years ago with first 9540's and apart from some aesthetics things r still the same 23-24 yrs later
The manual for new Crystal has appeared on "Zetor Service for users" page http://www.cals.cz/zetorservice/zetorservice.asp[/]
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2003
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- 4,020
- Location
- Laag Zuthem
- First name
- Renze
Machinery:
1976 5718
1978 5718 35kmh: Work in progress
1967 3011
Here an action video of the Crystal in Poland, so you can see the different angles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_5YH8PIyv4
The exterior design is flawless, very stylish, constructional elements are integrated into the aesthetics (a wasp waist in the hood to make room for the front wheels at large steering angles) so it can meet up with the big brands in terms of style.
The concept is right, Zetor customers wanted a tractor with a relatively simple powershift tractor with the wide torque band of a six cylinder for 15 years. Most importantly, the noise level is low, the airconditioning works, the wheelbase makes for a stable ride, there is some basic, comprehensible headland automation, and axle and cab suspension is optional.
With the HSX Zetor upgraded it within a year, with center drive 4wd etcetera. Most likely the Crystal will get an update within one or 2 years as well, with a rear axle that can compare to the competition, and an upgraded cab interior with more ergonomically placed hydraulic levers, and the hand throttle on the right hand console as well. The HSX could use this upgrade too, because it also falls behind in cab interior design and ergonomy in the similarly priced NH T6 range.
This interior upgrade would be a good moment to also change the door gas strut geometry.
It should take tractors of around the year 2000 as an example, like the Case MX100-170 or the Deutz-Fahr Agrotron 106-165 (the MX100-170 has a more plain and robust look and feel, which would better suit the Zetor brand image than the fancy colours of the D-F Agrotron)
http://www.konedata.net/Traktorit/caseihMaxxumMX100.htm
http://www.konedata.net/Traktorit/dfAgrotron106.htm
In fact, they can even take their own Maxterra prototype as an example of what a Crystal cab should look like !
http://fotosen.txt.cz/foto/247577/0/134/zetor-maxterra-165/
Another one to compare to, is the John Deere 5M series, they also have mechanical direct gearlevers, but with a modern intuitive side panel:
http://www.konedata.net/Traktorit/jd5M_09.htm
Those had an EHR three point but a gearlever mounted directly on the gearbox and mechanical controls on an ergonomic instrument panel on the right side. Put such a cab interior, and a 7.5 ton rear axle in the Crystal and it would be exactly what Zetor users have been asking for, for over 15 years.
I would have the guy that designed the Crystal exterior, also have a go in the cab interior. Nothing fancy, mechanical gearstick stays, but external remotes and hand throttle need to be ergonomically placed, as well as the electric switches regrouped in an intuitive fashion.
But for now, Zetor doesnt have to send customers away to the competition, they have created a tractor in which a farmer wants to be seen by others ! No doubt it will get an update within one or two years to make it more appealing to a lot more customers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_5YH8PIyv4
The exterior design is flawless, very stylish, constructional elements are integrated into the aesthetics (a wasp waist in the hood to make room for the front wheels at large steering angles) so it can meet up with the big brands in terms of style.
The concept is right, Zetor customers wanted a tractor with a relatively simple powershift tractor with the wide torque band of a six cylinder for 15 years. Most importantly, the noise level is low, the airconditioning works, the wheelbase makes for a stable ride, there is some basic, comprehensible headland automation, and axle and cab suspension is optional.
With the HSX Zetor upgraded it within a year, with center drive 4wd etcetera. Most likely the Crystal will get an update within one or 2 years as well, with a rear axle that can compare to the competition, and an upgraded cab interior with more ergonomically placed hydraulic levers, and the hand throttle on the right hand console as well. The HSX could use this upgrade too, because it also falls behind in cab interior design and ergonomy in the similarly priced NH T6 range.
This interior upgrade would be a good moment to also change the door gas strut geometry.
It should take tractors of around the year 2000 as an example, like the Case MX100-170 or the Deutz-Fahr Agrotron 106-165 (the MX100-170 has a more plain and robust look and feel, which would better suit the Zetor brand image than the fancy colours of the D-F Agrotron)
http://www.konedata.net/Traktorit/caseihMaxxumMX100.htm
http://www.konedata.net/Traktorit/dfAgrotron106.htm
In fact, they can even take their own Maxterra prototype as an example of what a Crystal cab should look like !
http://fotosen.txt.cz/foto/247577/0/134/zetor-maxterra-165/
Another one to compare to, is the John Deere 5M series, they also have mechanical direct gearlevers, but with a modern intuitive side panel:
http://www.konedata.net/Traktorit/jd5M_09.htm
Those had an EHR three point but a gearlever mounted directly on the gearbox and mechanical controls on an ergonomic instrument panel on the right side. Put such a cab interior, and a 7.5 ton rear axle in the Crystal and it would be exactly what Zetor users have been asking for, for over 15 years.
I would have the guy that designed the Crystal exterior, also have a go in the cab interior. Nothing fancy, mechanical gearstick stays, but external remotes and hand throttle need to be ergonomically placed, as well as the electric switches regrouped in an intuitive fashion.
But for now, Zetor doesnt have to send customers away to the competition, they have created a tractor in which a farmer wants to be seen by others ! No doubt it will get an update within one or two years to make it more appealing to a lot more customers
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- Location
- Laag Zuthem
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- Renze
Machinery:
1976 5718
1978 5718 35kmh: Work in progress
1967 3011
More promotional videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2HPnl8PmQE
Sounds like the sounds editor made a mistake and mixed a Forterra 4 cylinder sound in it
Zetor says the original Crystal outline was designed by Otakar Diblik, an industrial designer who designed many important Czech vehicles.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fcs.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FOtakar_Dibl%25C3%25ADk&edit-text=&act=url
curiously, the right side arm console isnt showed in the brochure... will it be brought up to date before serial production ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2HPnl8PmQE
Sounds like the sounds editor made a mistake and mixed a Forterra 4 cylinder sound in it
Zetor says the original Crystal outline was designed by Otakar Diblik, an industrial designer who designed many important Czech vehicles.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fcs.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FOtakar_Dibl%25C3%25ADk&edit-text=&act=url
curiously, the right side arm console isnt showed in the brochure... will it be brought up to date before serial production ?
- Joined
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- 4,020
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- Laag Zuthem
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- Renze
Machinery:
1976 5718
1978 5718 35kmh: Work in progress
1967 3011
Thanks for that here's hoping,will we be that lucky,i also saw on a polish website a list price of 68000 for 150 and 74000 for 160 vat inclusive,although my local dealer is suggesting it will be those kind of figures here plus vat at 23% atleast u
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- 4,020
- Location
- Laag Zuthem
- First name
- Renze
Machinery:
1976 5718
1978 5718 35kmh: Work in progress
1967 3011
For those prices it just wont sell with the current cab interior. If it was 60.000 it would sell with 1990's cab interior, but for 70 to 75.000 they need to bring the cab interior up to date. The rest of the tractor is quite OK but its the first look inside the cab that decides, when the price is the same as competitors.
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2003
- Messages
- 4,020
- Location
- Laag Zuthem
- First name
- Renze
Machinery:
1976 5718
1978 5718 35kmh: Work in progress
1967 3011
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8XLmN_nEn8
Another video from a Polish agri magazine, featuring the sales manager of Zetor Poland.
My admiration for the hood design, and the overall look with its masculine shape which is contributed by the "hard red" rims, grows every time i look at it, yet my conviction that the cab interior, (and secondly the rear axle) must get an update before this tractor would really attract customers from other brands, grows equally...
Another video from a Polish agri magazine, featuring the sales manager of Zetor Poland.
My admiration for the hood design, and the overall look with its masculine shape which is contributed by the "hard red" rims, grows every time i look at it, yet my conviction that the cab interior, (and secondly the rear axle) must get an update before this tractor would really attract customers from other brands, grows equally...
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2003
- Messages
- 4,020
- Location
- Laag Zuthem
- First name
- Renze
Machinery:
1976 5718
1978 5718 35kmh: Work in progress
1967 3011
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQtQTNESURg
Black smoke in Deutz Tier 4i engine?
