zetor 3545 hard to start!!

[zetor3545]

hi gang
well had my 3545 all up and running and out and about i really like her love the gears. just wen i go to her in the morning she is a bit of a cow to start winds a lot?? not usual for a zetor !!

i have given her new injectors

new lift pump

filters

and i have tried pumping the hand primer before staring her

i pull the throttle round press the excess fuel but she winds for about 15 secs !!

any ideas what i can try?/

matthew

 

[dave_peters]

Matthew, When you push in the excess fuel button with the throttle open you should hear a definate click as the rack moves, and there should be a bit of black smoke as it starts, if not, then check pump lubrication first, if still no good then take the side plate off the pump and make sure the rack inside is moving all the way when the button is pressed, if not spray with penetrating oil while moving it back and forewards, as they can dry out with lack of use, although I've never known a PAL do this, only simms .
Dave

 

[zetor3545]

dave

i already do that it wont start at all if i wont use it! i cant figger her out!!

 

[dave_peters]

Matthew, have you got skype voice?

 

[zetor3545]

no sorry dave not really that great with the computers!! i guess thers a problem with my pump???

 

[dave_peters]

Could be, are you sure the valves are good and the piston rings are not worn?

 

[zetor3545]

yes valves are good re ground the lot she had a comp test and was ok
cant figger it out havent touched her timing

matt

 

[dave_peters]

If you re ground the valves a bit generously then you lower the compression ratio and this will cause poor starting.
I have seen a 5545 with a thermostart drilled into the manifold because of this. solved the problem though !!
Dave

 

[zetor3545]

dave do you mean add a glow plug????

matt

 

[dave_peters]

Glow plugs are usually in the cylinders, I meant the device that , for example, an M/F 35, has in the inlet manifold. It gets red hot after about 30 seconds and then lets a small amount of diesel onto the coil which catches fire and gets drawn into the engine when its cranked. known as a Thermostart.
Dave

 

[ixer0]

Hi Matt

Does it smoke when you're trying to start ? It sounds like a lack of compression . What figures did you get ? A squirt of oil down each injector hole may give you a pointer as it will seal the rings.
Have you set the valves correctly ?
Is the starter turning it fast enough ?
Try altering the timing a little bit each way. Mark it before you start moving it.

Mike

 

[zetor3545]

hi guys
i know what you mean dave a manifold heater i may borrow my mums hair dryer and give her a shot of hot air and see what she does mike i have set the valves all correct alan barlow told me the correct order and you told me the clearnces. she has a new starter and a battery like in a ford tractor!! she smokes after around 1 turn i have tried the hand primer before starting but no difference and she has a new lift pump. do you maybe think i should turn the injection pump one way and see if she is any better.


what has made me think recently the previous owner ran her with a small ammount of oil in her injection pump.

i have filled it with morrises 15w30

matt

 

[zetor3545]

mike i shal give her a re test on the compression . my tester is a bit old and battered so may not be fantastic. it was shortly after i got her i testesd her and i dont remember the readings

 

[zetor3545]

good news guys

i borrowed my mums hair dryer and removed theair intake pipe from the air cleaner placed the hair dryer in front and turned it on to max hot air. left it for 10 seconds pulled the throotle round and excess fuel and started 4th wind on the starter and ran excellent as usual. i am going to fit a manifold heater like Dave p said and drill a hole in the pipe and weld a nut on it to threw the heater in to.

i am very happy now that has worked!!!

matt

 

[zetor3545]

"screw the heater in to"

 

[zetor3545]

Dave you know this 5545 you knew of with a thermostart did she have a fuel injected one? if i am to fit one like on a 35 i need it to have a fuel source. do i have the chip in to the fuel system???

matthew

 

[per_ola]

Hello.
the best glow plugs are with fuel injection
Just fit it to return pipe from injektors or from fuel tank.
On my old Ford 2000 its a small tank for glow plug, but on my zetor 9540 its fitted from bottom of fuel tank with a pipe down to manifoild.
Now before winther i also must fit one on my crystal i bought tree weeks ago.
Sorry for my bad english but i hope you understand

 

[dave_peters]

Matthew
All the thermostarts, from the KI-Gas on old perkins to the modern ones use diesel. Deutz on some engines use a massive coil to produce heat, but this uses a lot of battery just when you don't want it to.
The 5545 was done a bit unconventionally, it had a little tank off a chainsaw fitted above the inlet manifold which held enough diesel for about a month's starts. The person who fitted it used to dilute the diesel with a bit of kerosine ( paraffin) as he said it worked better, but I've never had a problem with one running on diesel. What I would add, however, is don't plumb it direct into your diesel tank. I have had to remove the injectors on a Deutz engine that had that done because when the thermostart leaked over a weekend it filled the manifold up with diesel and locked the engine solid.
Dave

 

[zetor3545]

thanks for that perolav and Dave.

so if i chip in to the return pipe which goes back into the top of the tank should that work?


do these thermostarts work via heat once the coil glows red it opens to let the diesel in???


matthew

 

[per_ola]

On my old ford tractor,this small tank is fitted to return pipe from injectors.So it refill itselfs. I dont know how mutch fuel it must be for one start,so its maybe a good idea to put on a small tank, that is not much work anyway.

 

[dave_peters]

I think thermostarts use only a few cc each start. yes, they glow red before they let diesel onto the coil, you should hear a pop when the diesel on the coil ignites, then crank engine and suck Flames into engine. airflow then cools coil and diesel flow stops.
Years ago Perkins had a glass manifold which they filmed for people to see how it worked !!
Dave

 

[zetor3545]

yes dave i see how it works now i rmoved the air hose on my mf and turned the key to heat she went red them pop a nice flame then dragged it in to the engine.

i like the idea of a small tank clean it up and prime it and spray it gold would look a treat i shall have a look to see if i have a tank around here.

matthew

 

[dave_peters]

Matthew, I notice that you may weld a nut onto the manifold... before you try it check that the manifold is steel !! A lot of zetor inlet manifolds that I have come across are Aluminium.
From memory, which may be wrong, I think most thermostarts are 3/4" BSP thread.
Dave

 

[zetor3545]

dave i checked the manifold is steel i didnt really remember.

well to prove the point that the thermostat will work still havent got round to getting one.

i have been holing the blow lamp in front of the air manifoldand getting the old man to crank her over. she starts 2 turns.

i can get a manifold heater with fuel injection problemis i have to get a nut and the pipe which fits it. but i will do.

matthew

 

[treaney]

Hello.
the best glow plugs are with fuel injection
Just fit it to return pipe from injektors or from fuel tank.
On my old Ford 2000 its a small tank for glow plug, but on my zetor 9540 its fitted from bottom of fuel tank with a pipe down to manifoild.
Now before winther i also must fit one on my crystal i bought tree weeks ago.
Sorry for my bad english but i hope you understand

Now I'm really confused....

I thought (maybe mistakenly) the reason that the MF35 had the glow plug was because it was indirect injection (older design, lower compression ratio, less complete burning of fuel, lower injection pressure) and the reason that my Crystal 8011 doesn't need a glow plug is because it is direct injection. I have always admired the way the Crystal starts first time on a cold morning after being left outside. BTW "cold" by Irish standards is -2 or -3 degrees C which I know is sunbathing temp for many of you!

Clarification anyone?

 

[dave_peters]

Yes Tom, you are correct, virtually all indirect diesel engines need extra heat, whether they have in cylinder glows or in manifold systems.
Dave

 

[dave_peters]

Yes Tom, you are correct, virtually all indirect diesel engines need extra heat, whether they have in cylinder glows or in manifold systems.
Dave

 

[per_ola]

here in norway the most of tractors is delivered with a type of glow plugs as standard.its only old zetor with cold start button you can start in minus 20celsius without glowing (and some old valmet). Here we also fit on block heater.

I have no chanse to start my old 8011 without using block heater in minus 10celsius. Must put on a glow plug one day.

 

[treaney]

The Fordson Major E27N with the 6 cylinder Perkins P6 (TA) engine also had a excess fuel device (cold start button). I have seen these left outside for years, get a quick check to make sure no water is lodged anywhere, a fresh battery and bingo - away she goes!

It impressed me anyhow...

 

[dave_peters]

The P6(TA) that I knew in the E27N and the 744D Massey had both Excess fuel and Ki-gas cold starting systems and usually took around 20 seconds of cranking before they would fire on a cold morning, so you must have seen one of the few that was a good starter. They had line bored crankshafts and whenever the crank was overhauled or new pistons were fitted the pistons had to be assembelled in the block and the height above the block measured accurately ; them the pistons were taken out and turned down on a lathe to, I believe, 3 to 5 '000 below the block height, any more and you had endless trouble starting and any less and there was a risk of the pistons hitting the head when the conrods expanded during running. Of course the compression could also be reduced if the valves were ground enthusiastically .
We've got life simple now .
Dave