Hey William.... how are the 114's doing ??

Renze · Mar 15, 2004

William, i dont know if you still read the forum here, are you too busy with your 11441's shifting earth ???

How are they doing, have you given them a bit extra fuel ??

croc2 · Mar 15, 2004

Hi Renze,

Well the forterras are doing ok, both the new ones are nearly due 1000 hr service, the ex demo has 1400 hrs on the clock.

All three have almost been faultless, the weeping head was dealt with at the first service along with the compresser on the other one. The ex demo has been back for a clutch (bad driver and very hard loader use plus bad clutch plate ).
They have all been tweeked to around about 125-130 hp so we shall see how they last. How ever front tyres are wearing very fast but thats probibly due to all road work and carrying all the weights out front on the hitches.

The only other gripe is the standard of the paint work which has started to peel off in places due to having the steam cleaner to hot!!!!!!!!

Anyway i am thinking about another one to replace the 9145 so overall 8.5/10. When are these 6 pots due???????????

Renze · Mar 15, 2004

William, MAYBE we will see the six pots in the model 2005 ??Forterra (3rd generation)
I dont really know but the prototype is ready for production, and the new forterra is under development. I dont know what that means...:-x

Same-Deutz-Fahr has announced to discontinue the Same engines in 2005 and Sammy will use Deutz engines. So Zetor has to do something, and i think they have the bigger version of the Forterra tranny ready then...

All is just rumor... dont blame me when it's not going to happen as i said...
..But maybe the six pots will be here sooner... ???

Hey, do those tuned 114's smoke real bad ??

I am told the Forterra tranny in it's current form, is desigend for tractors up to about 140 to 150 hp...
But i really wonder how the engines are going at 130 hp !! ..

croc2 · Mar 16, 2004

Hi Renze,

Well at the moment they dont smoke to bad apart from when they are working HARD, by that i mean upto there axles in mud which is quite often, how ever the engines are serviced every 200 hrs and all filters are done, with top notch oil going back in so they should last 10,000 hrs or more hopefully. The drivers have all been told in no uncertain terms if they shut down the engines with out simmering the turbos for 2 mins i will sack them on the spot, that is also in there contract of employment!!!!.

Mind you i have got a good bunch of blokes who look after their tractors like they are there own. As for the 6 pots hurry up ZETOR we want them NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Renze · Mar 16, 2004

If i was a chief at a contracting company, having a guy asking for a job, and i would ask him why his previous boss sacked him, i would laugh and grin, i think...

Anyway, with these high pressure turbo machines, it makes a difference in lifespan, i am sure....
I am told, when a turbo runs without pressure lubrication (putting a working engine off suddenly) it wears in 1 second as much as the rest of the engine does in 1 minute....

What kind of work do you do with the loader ??

Just shoveling loose earth, or also excavating construction pits ???

croc2 · Mar 19, 2004

Well we use the loader mainly for loading crushed concrete and stone which we sell to farmers and contractors. Its getting a hard life as we have a big bucket on it all the time.
Anyway there is one problem i have now and that is i need a tractor with 150-160 hp 40K Must be fairly light and have a good transmission for pulling a 15 ton 360 digger on a tri axle beaver tail trailer and have air brakes.

Where do i start any ideas????????????????????

Renze · Mar 19, 2004

An old Crystal is light. I have seen a 16211 at an onion trader that hauled potato and onions to Germany, with modified transmission that did 55 km/h... It weighs about 4800 to 5000 kg..

Most other tractors are a lot heavier in that hp class.

woodbeef · Mar 20, 2004

Hey William,

Are the Valtra Mega/HiTech/T-series light enough for you?

Renze · Mar 20, 2004

So, you want to pull a 15 ton trailer... Do you really need 160 hp ? i think a 11441 will do just fine, at the contracting company i worked, they used an old trailer from the army surplus store, a tank transport trailer, pulled by a Ford 8210. They transported 25 ton Fiat-Hitachi and O&K tracked excavators with it.
Are the hills in England really that steep ??

So, you want to buy an excavator??
If i remember right, now you use two or three JCB 4CX diggers ??
Over here, loader/digger combo's are very rare, 98% of the contracting is done with excavators like Atlas, Liebherr and Komatsu. wheeled excavators (up to 17 ton) and tracked excavators as well.

I agree with Woodbeef, Valtras are light too..

croc2 · Mar 20, 2004

Woodbeef,

I have not thought about valtra dont even know where the nearest dealer is, However we have MF nearby and also NH. I dont want to be too far from the supplying dealer for spares.
How ever what valtra would be a good choice as i dont know nothing about them. I am swinging towards a MF as the dealer is one i trust . I would rather have something with not much electronics as i dont fully trust them.

Renze,
Well the Komatsu will weigh about 16 tons plus the trailer which being tri axle with steering axle is not going to be light, and the hills round here are as steep as 1in 4 in places with hairpin bends so quite nasty. I do have 3 3cx sitemasters and these are hugely popular here but the time has come to buy my first slew which is due in 4 weeks so the forterras will have to do for the time being. I just think that 160hp will be just right.

woodbeef · Mar 21, 2004

William,

Since you want as little electronics as possible,I'd look for Mega series tractors then. 8400/8450/8550 would be the ones.

Renze · Mar 21, 2004

Woodbeef, William:

According to my 2003 Dutch tractor list, a 190 hp Valtra HiTech 8950 Sigma Power would weigh 5220 Kg.
At the time my list was published, the weight of a T 180 was not known yet.

An Ursus 1934 of 180 hp (old Crystal tech with the long stroke 7.3 liter UR4 engine) would cost here, 53.500 Euro and weigh 5950 kg.

Have you thought of a Unimog ?? They are quite expensive, also second hand, but have a lot of power, and sprung axles.

About the diggers, if you dig a trench, do the operators have to turn their seats to drive the digger forward, like on the 2CX digger i drove at a garden contractor ??

I mean, in that case i cant see why they are so popular.. excavators like the Hitachi would be much user friendlier... And also have a bigger capacity !

treaney · Mar 22, 2004

I have not thought about valtra dont even know where the nearest dealer is, However we have MF nearby and also NH. I dont want to be too far from the supplying dealer for spares.
How ever what valtra would be a good choice as i dont know nothing about them. I am swinging towards a MF as the dealer is one i trust . I would rather have something with not much electronics as i dont fully trust them.[/]

William,

For info on Valtra's see https://www.valtra.co.uk/defaultHTTPS.htm

Agco own MF, Valtra and Fendt so your local MF dealer can supply Valtra.

BTW the big MF the 8xxx series use a Sisu engine which is made by Valtra!

To further confuse you, both MF and Valtra are due to get the Fendt Vario transmission.

Moral: The more things change, the more things stay the same.

Good luck in your hunt.

Tom

croc2 · Mar 22, 2004

Well had a chat with the MF dealer today and i am going to try a 6480 for a week next week, the NH dealer appears not to want the buisness (a TM140), Valtra is a toss up between the C-150 and the M-150, and just to throw a spanner in the works a McCormick Mtx150 i think will do as well.

What is the main difference between the C-150 and the M-150 woodbeef.

croc2 · Mar 24, 2004

Hi Renze,

Well we have had one of those days today, im a 11441 down due a blown turbo. (due to BLOCKED FEED PIPE)>> as always none in stock so have to wait till they get it fixed, how ever i now have a demo Massey 5465 now for a fortnight (shows they want my MONEY) and the 6480 next week. Valtra are now off the list as the saleman was less than helpful, looked at a McCormick but didnt like the look of it, so looks like i will be buying a massey.

Out of all the dealers i Spoke too (MF,NH,Valtra,McCormick the massey one was the only one to bend over backwards for me, Mind you that says alot for the dealer. The Zetor dealer is great as well just doesnt keep much in stock so had nothing for me. As for buying a Unimog they are very expensive and i dont rate them one bit, in fact i would rather have the JCB fasttrack apart from the fact they are not that good in narrow twisty lanes and not that reliable.

gw · Mar 25, 2004

I think that you will not like the 54xx. In a few words they are a gather up. the cab is far too big for the tractor. if you stand at the back of the tractor you could get a person lost in the space visible underneath the cab. Also a good mechanic friend of mine (for MF) says they are quite soft not much guts about them. As for the 64xx they seem to be quite good. the only thing is for the best out it you have to get it chipped. since all the engine is electronic a chip goes in the dash operated by a rocker switch for a bit of a boost. So dont be dissappointed it can be increased.

As my friend says (after much convincing) "Your better with the Zetor, But more classey with the Massey"[/][/] and he also calls fastracs fastscrap, in agreement with you!

mjc · Mar 26, 2004

Hello William,
I'd be interested to know why you didn't like the McCormick. I had a brush with one the other day (145? I think) and I have to say I was quite impressed with the engineering. I don't drive tractors for a living so perhaps I am missing something!

Renze · Mar 26, 2004

William, what was the cause of the blocked the feed pipe ??

Was there a mouse in it, that has eaten a way through the air filter, into the turbo feed pipe ???

crystalman · Mar 26, 2004

I know what William means about the McCormicks.I would like to see them succeed but all the ones I have looked at have not been put together very well-A new Zetor knocks spots off of one! The McCormicks all seem to have a microscopically thin coat of paint on them-especially the castings which look very rough and look like they will be covered in rust after a year or two.

croc2 · Mar 26, 2004

Renze,
STUIPID REPLY????????????????????????????????

It was a lump of rubber that blocked the oil FEED pipe to the TURBO, which ment that the turbo was starved of OIL.
How it got there we dont know but tis going to cost money.

Crystalman,

U have said everything i was going to about the McCormicks the build quaility is CR*P and i would not buy one if they paid me and they are quite dear i think as well. The massey we have at the mo is ok nothing good or bad about it, just does the job, how ever looking forward to the 6480 on monday. How you getting on with your resto of you 8245.

Renze · Mar 28, 2004

Ahh.. now i know what you mean !!!

I thought that the feed pipe, you meant the pipe from air filter to the turbo...

I suppose you would have recognised that BEFORE the turbo would blow, as it would have no power at all, with so much intake vacuum... Yes, stupid reply...

croc2 · Mar 28, 2004

Well renze glad u admitted that was a silly post, how ever i forgive you . The 11441 came back yesterday all fit and well and the massey 5465 went back, not bad but felt light weight and odd compared to the forterras, how ever good on derv, comfy cab and good visability. The 6480 seems like a very nice bit of kit haven driven it back to the yard with the suspended cab and front axle are great, just like driving my car. Stll will report back during the week to let you all know whats tis like.

crystalman · Mar 31, 2004

Hi William-The 8245 resto has been on hold over the winter while I have the animals indoors.When they go out I will have more time to continue with it.There are a few bits and pieces I want to order from Igor before Slovakia joins the EEC and becomes vatable! I also want to get new tops for the battery boxes/cab steps made up from nice thick steel.You either need plenty of time or plenty of money and I have neither!!!!!

woodbeef · Mar 31, 2004

Hey William,

Sorry sir,I just noticed your question about the Valtra C/M Series differences.

The M is an updated Mezzo/HiTech basically. The C is a new model,sort of a cross between an A series size wise and a M for the technology. The C is geared more towards livestock farmers and loader applications.

croc2 · Mar 31, 2004

Hi Woodbeef,

Dont worry about it, i have pretty much decided on the massey as the dealer is about 5 miles away, and one that i know. The Valtra dealer is too far away to be any good. I had a good look at the 8200 series and i really do think its a great big lump of tractor and not nimble enough, and not only that quite a old tractor in design.

croc2 · Apr 4, 2004

Hi Renze,

Well have decided on the massey 6480 with most of the boxs ticked as im going to be driving it full time. Mind you its a shame that i cant have a 150hp zetor yet.

Still the dealers coming to see me tomorrow to talk prices and stuff so we shall see.

Renze · Apr 5, 2004

William, good choice !!

MF is reasonably priced, the quality is much better than it was 15 to 20 years ago, and they look nice too !! I think if it was no Zetor, i'd buy an MF or Valtra, not a NH.

Yes, it's a shame... But what do you want ? just another rebadged tractor that follows every wind that blows, but goes bankrupt, or will merge with another one, within time ?? Or do you want that 150 hp Zetor to be a REAL zetor, as we know them ?

I think HTC is doing a careful business. First they introduce the Proxima and soon, a vineyard and orchard series based on them, and also a semi-compact, an orchard model on normal trackwidth.

They try to keep their existing market carefully, before they try to re-establish on the market they have already lost...

No, i believe HTC is going for the long run, not for some quick buck$$$

croc2 · Apr 6, 2004

Renze,

I think you are right in your last post, Let HTC carry on as they are and when they get the smaller range out and the money rolling in so they can develop a good 6 pot tractor.

And yes, i am glad that you agree with me about the massey, having done the deal for it yesterday, i have decided to have on lease-hire, that way i know my exact costs for the next 3 years and also the maintainance will also be done by the dealer.
I got a good deal as i know he wanted to get his foot in the door and we shall see if he remains on the ball.

croc2 · Sep 4, 2004

Hi Renze,

Sorry its been a long time, i thought you might likea update of the forterras, What can i say apart from they have been Faultless, by that i mean nothing has gone wrong, fallen off, broke!!!!!!. all 3 have now got over 2000 hrs on the clock as they are working 18 hrs+ 7 days a week, which is as heavy as it gets for a tractor i think. My Massey is Faultless as well, just over 1300 hrs and nothing has gone wrong on this, just wish i could say the same about the JCB 3cx thats spent more time in the dealers than out on hire in the last 3 months. however that is something i wont bore you with.

Great tractors these Forterras 9.5/10.

phil · Sep 4, 2004

hey william,

you been expanding the business lately? Last time i spoke to you (ages ago i know) you were buying second-hand Crystals, now all of a sudden you have however many 114's and a new MF! Would be interested to hear what work your putting infront of those machines....

phil

Hey William.... how are the 114's doing ??

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