Best Zetor for forestry?

brian_lofthouse · Jan 8, 2004

Firstly thankyou Crystalman for the advise about the 7245 axle.
Soon we will be replacing our 7245 with a newer machine.
Which Zetor model about 2to3 years old would any of you say is the best for forestry work. It must be 80to90 hp and have good ground clearance. I dont think a major because the brakes are the same as a 7245, (not too good). I dont think a super because there is to many pipes, filters etc too low down. What's left ?
Don't suggest another make Zetors are the best forestry tractors other than Valtra, but look at their price.

markku · Jan 9, 2004

Hello,

I must say that I am a Zetor man, BUT There is no good Zetors for forestry use sinze 7745 series sorry. Maybe the 6340 would be something, but it has bad front axle and it need good steel protections under the tractor.

If I would be you I would buy 7745 Turbo or 9245 ZTS, but if you want newer tractor for forestry......

Buy a Valmet. The Mezzo, Mega and Forest models are designed for forestry use. And I have to admit it is only tractor on these days that is suitable to forest.

I must say that I am not a Valmet man....

So I am working in the forest with my 6245 and 7745 as long as it is possible. then I buy a Valmet for forestry use but still going use Zetors and Zts for other purposes...... Maybe...

treaney · Jan 9, 2004

Interesting point Markku. As you speak from experience, it is all the more believable.

There was a 1 page article in the October 2003 edition of Classic Tractor on page 14 which gave a glowing user experience (except for the brakes) of a Zetor 7245 used for forestry work.

As I mentioned in a previous post, Valtra is going from strength to strength in Ireland. They have killed MF. Zetor is not now faring well as Zetor's are no longer as cheap as they once were.

Tom

Renze · Jan 9, 2004

Brian:

You need an LKT 81..

Unfortunately it seems that the production has been ceized...
They had a 4.5 liter Crystal 4 pot turbo...

I will try to find an adress for you of one of the Czech companies that can fit a tractor witht eh necessary pretection sheets and winches..

phil · Jan 9, 2004

Tom i think you will find that Brian is the guy from the article in CT!

Brian hows it going? I hail from fellow north yorkshire......

Renze · Jan 9, 2004

Brian,

Does your 7245 has the drum brakes ? The 7745 had dry disks standard. The 7245 too in many countries, in some countries they were optional.

I think new Zetors all have wet disks ??
There are purpose built protection sheets available. But you can also make some belly protection yourself.

Why would a Major be better for forest use than a Super ?

brian_lofthouse · Jan 9, 2004

Thanks all for your replies,
Phil from N.Yorks, you are correct I am the guy who put the article in Classic Tractor, I wanted the free model tractor (for my son) which I have not got yet.
Renze a Lkt 81 would be too big and expensive, it also has to pull a forwarding trailer and have 3point linkage for other jobs.
Our 7245 has dry drum brakes but most of the time they are wet with brake fluid, as far as I know the brakes on Majors are the same, which puts me off a Major, but the guarding off our 7245 would fit it.
I've not had a good look at a Forterra, but what does everyone think of them for forestry use?
.

markku · Jan 10, 2004

7245 has dry drum brakes, those are little weak. But 7745 and newer models has dry disc brake with 2+2 disc. That is better brake and it keeps even backwards!!! It isnt good enough with heavy trailer but I can manage in forest fine with those newer brakes. And last week I had about 8 tonnes lumbers on my trailer!! First problem in forest is that UR1 series zetors doesnt have their own weight too much. About 4000 to 4500 kg tractor would be better.

Major models are offcourse better to forestry but those need steel protections too. (Because hydraulic pipes and filters).

By the way, Zetor original tyres (Barum tz17) are best tyres to forest. Here in Finland Nokia makes specially forestry use designed tractor tyres and those are popular, but I use 10 times tied Barum tz tyres. Barums are cheaper and those keeps the contact on earth lots off better than Nokia forest or tractor special tyres does.

And chains to each wheel are minimum requirement when drivin in forest. (we use heavy duty chains even summer)!

But if You are "PRO" in forestry works. Buy a Ponsse or TimberJack forestry tractor (price about 170 000 euros)!! But second hand machines are plenty here in Finland! Just buy a plain ticket and come and select one.

markku · Jan 10, 2004

Renze,

In Finland was a manufacture who made a finnish type forestrymachines on the LK-81. The cabin was taken off and they built better high quality cabin on it (backwards driver face to back frame). The gearbox was modificated and mounted a hydraulic vario type power shuttle transmission. And on the back frame was mounted hydraulic lifter with cutting head!

Those machines were made some. Once it was near we didnt buy one. It was great machine price about 17 000 euros (500 hours driven!!!!!) but the cutting head was rubbish!

Offcourse we could change the head but new head is about 60 000 euros!! Worth of it?????

Or I am poor

Renze · Jan 10, 2004

Brian, a Major has the dry disks as on the 7745.
The Super, according to www.zetor.cz , has wet disks.
I think both systems are a lot better than the drums, but i think the wet disks are best.

I am sure the underbelly protection of your 7245 will fit a Super, as it is the same base. Maybe the rollcage around the cab will not fit because of the newer cab.
I think the cab roll cage isn't very hard to make.
For weight, you can get some wheel weights, and front weights to make them heavier.

Markku, I know the LKT 120 (150 hp six pot) is sold with all kinds of equipment, not just tree grabs but also automated felling headers, the standard felling headers were Finnish built..???

The Ponsse and Timberjack machines are a bad choice if you want to have a social living: Last year we had two men in the forest around us, with Ponsse machines. They worked from 7.30 in the moring to 11 in the evening, and at night they slept in the cab of their log truck.
They said that they were working for themself, and wotking so many hours was the only way to make these expensive machines profitable. If times get worse and there is less work, you have a problem if you cant make the necessary hours.

In that case, youre better of with a cheaper Zetor, maybe a lower capcacity but the financial risk is much lower.

markku · Jan 10, 2004

Yep!

It seemes to be a same around the world. Here normal day for forestry drivers is from 4 am to 18 pm and other driver usually do the rest of the day!

I am personally going out from the forestry works and doing these days my own forest works only. It is a relief!

I know that LK 120, but Idea in Finland was making not so heavy for first cutting in forest. (It is common to do 3 cutting in Finnish forest.) I think the name of company was Somet or something who did the modifications to LK 81s. Well machine was nice and modern and price was decent, but teh cutting head was rubbish and they got a bankrot...........

Super and Major series do have lots off unprotected components and parts at front of the tractor( on the both engine sides) Those are the most important to protect. That is mainly different between 77 and newer series when we are thinking forestry use....

One likes about mother and another likes about dother, but both can have some........

I tried to say other people likes thinks that another doesnt like about. But we are different!

phil · Jan 10, 2004

the dry discs on our 7745 are crap. touch them a little and they do nothing. touch them abit more and your through the windscreen just about!
Why buy new Brian? I would say a Valtra is best for forestry because they are designed for that useage.
Do you deal with Brian Otterburn of Harome????

crystalman · Jan 11, 2004

What about a second hand MB Trac with a forwarder and winch on it? They look pretty mean in the old leaflets I have got.

Renze · Jan 11, 2004

Crystalman, have you seen the price tag on old MB tracs ??

brian_lofthouse · Jan 12, 2004

I thought I better let you all know I won't be the one who makes the final decision about the machine we buy, I am only the driver and servicer. I did talk my boss into buying the 7245 and it has been a real good buy. The worthless price of timber will mean it wont be a MB or other such machine. Most of the work we do is thinnings, but we have a Ford County for big trees, I dont think much to that though, it would be better with a Zetor engine.
Maricku, yes Barum tyres are very good, we can't use chains as we do a lot of road work. Mostly small woods.
Phil the Yorkshire man, we deal with Aldersons of Askrigg near Hawes,England. Bye.

Renze · Jan 13, 2004

Brian:

Old Ford engines... sold by some companies in big quantities, just for replacement purposes.. If they were for industrial use they would be selling 5 liter powerstar engine, not old 4.4 liter Ford blocks.. It seems that those are still built, i have seen a 7710 with replaced engine, it had the New Holland logo moulded into the block...

I have no idea how good of a forest tractor a Forterra would be, but i know there are one or two rollcage and sheet protection kits available from Czech companies.

Here is a Zetor at the homepage of teh GErman importer, in forest clothing: http://www.zetor.de/Sondermaschinen.htm

crystalman · Jan 14, 2004

Reply #13 Posted at Sun Jan 11 16:46:17 2004
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crystalman, have you seen the price tag on old MB tracs ??

If we are not going to be spending too much of Brian's hard earned money we will have to rebuild the engine ,axle and brakes on the 7245 for a couple of thousand pounds and it will go on for a few thousand more hours

Renze · Jan 15, 2004

Yes..

Our 6718 has done 10002 hours (we never had a tractor with only 0002 clock hours before !!! ) and it is just about 'broken in'
This summer, it has PTO driven the irrigation pump in temperatures over 27 C, in 100 working hours i had to top up the oil just once !!

If that 7245 has done 7000 hours, it will go for another 7000 without much problems...

Those planetary front axles are easy to take apart for repair.
Engine parts, i'd say dont mess with machine shops but buy new sleeves, piston rings, pistons, and a set of crankshaft main bearings, as these parts are cheaper than machining labor.

If this is a well maintained tractor that is treated well when the engine oil is cold in the morning, (the hydrodynamic lubrication thing, and thermal growth) and has done some hard work to burn out the coal and tar sludges from the cylinder heads from time to time, i think i'd just wait and overhaul after at least 10.000 hours.. I think 15.000 is the max. hours before overhaul, but if you commercially depend on it every day, overhaul at 10.000 hours.

woodbeef · Jan 15, 2004

There is a Steyr 8080a on eBay.de equipped for forestry work. It looks to be a good price on it too,.Looks too long though to be a 8080a,but it could also be the armor plating.....http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2587635245&category=29094

Renze · Jan 15, 2004

8700 Euro for a Steyr with 9500 clock hours ??

Heheh... fix that front axle and do another 5000 hours at least with that Zetor, i'd say...

Overhauling an enigine and a clutch for 14.000 Euro ??
MAN, i think they put many, many labor hours in it !!

brian_lofthouse · Jan 15, 2004

Crystalman and Renze,
Our tractor's gone into the local garage to see if he can do anything with the axle, I'm sure he can, he's a good mechanic (he will be looking at this web site) And I printed Crystalmans repair directions and gave him them.
If we had it reconditioned the engine and gearbox would not need touching, the engine is better now than when new, it doesn't use a drop of oil or water and starts instantly.
Now would be a good time to get a newer macine as this year there is a good grant for forestry machines.
Our old one would be used for very rough jobs, and maybe as much as it is now if the new tractor's not a Zetor.
Renze I'll have to paint the guarding yellow it looks good on that web site. Thanks.

woodbeef · Jan 16, 2004

hey Doc,

So you think a Steyr equipped for forestry work with 9500 hours,but a rebuilt engine and clutch is not worth 8700 Euros? I find that kind of hard to understand,when you think that ragged out 6718 of your's with over 10,000 hours is worth what was it 2500 or 3000 Euros as you told Crow you'd sell it to him for. Look at how much more you are getting with that Steyr,or am I missing the point about the brand being inferior?

As for the rebuild price it was quoted in DM not Euros. So if the guy did not make a mistake and add too many zeros it would have cost just over 7,158 Euros to do the work. Which is a credible cost of that type of work. Especially not knowing what else was repaired at that time.

Renze · Jan 16, 2004

Woodbeef, if you feel offended: I didn't say that the Steyr isn't worth it...

It's just, if you change the Zetor for the Steyr, chance is that the Zetor will be worth less than the Steyr, so you have to pay more while the Steyr has more hours, and probably looks worse than the Zetor. I dont know how Brian's 7245 looks like, but you can see the 9500 hours on the outside of that Steyr... a little rough i mean.

It had nothing to do with brand loyalty, or superiority, just an economical approach. If you pay more, do you actually get more ??
Personally i wouldn't trade a well running 7245 (you know what to expect from your own machine) for an older Steyr, if you only hear what they DO tell you (14.000 Dmark repair) you dont know what a tractor trader DID NOT tell you..

Over here, an engine shop about 25 km away from here offered overhaul for MWM engines (exampled one was Fendt 106) for 6100 guilders. that's about 2900 Euro.. A clutch overhaul is 1000 Euro plus a day of work, 8 hours x 50 Euro is 400 Euro.

Total is about 4500 Euro. Not 7.158

...By the way, the 2300 Euro for a 6718 is definately a usual trade price.. I even offered the tractor for 2000 Euro if i dont have to check why it doesn't start, probably needs a battery, but i havent checked.

brian_lofthouse · Jan 16, 2004

Sorry Woodbeef but I agree with Renze we are better off with our Zetor than a 9000h Steyr thats been used for forestry, it could be realy rough, I think its better to buy a farm tractor and put some guarding on. Steyr's are rare in this country and I've read CNH are stopping selling them in the UK.
Some forestry contractors hear think that Belarus are the best for the job, but not me.

treaney · Jan 17, 2004

Hi Brian,

All other things being equal (engine HP, spec etc.), do you think the reason that many Forestry contractors think that Belarus is best have anything to do wit h price?

Good picture from Classic Tractor - how did you manage to get on/off without sinking up to your oxters in muck?

Did Classic Tractor ever send you the model for your son?

Tom in Ireland

Adam.L · Jan 17, 2004

I was wondering what is was about Zetors that make them so suitable for forestry?

woodbeef · Jan 17, 2004

Hey Doc,

You're price qoute is for a MWM engine not Steyr. Plus like I have already stated we do not know what else was done at that time. I still say for a fully equipped,rebuilt forestry tractor the price is not all that bad.

Yes, Brian I also read that CNH will be discountinuing the Steyr brand in the UK. But not really sure what that has to dowith getting parts and service for older models.

Renze · Jan 17, 2004

Woody, are you saying the 8080 has a Steyr engine, not MWM ??
Ford, Perkins and Deutz overhauls used to be 5500 guilders, 2500 Euro. Koning Motorenrevisie Staphorst is the name of the company.

O.K. maybe the price for the Steyr will do, but my point is, that it is of no use spending another 2500 Euro if you trade the 7245 for the Steyr with more hours.

Yes, i agree that we dont know what else has been replaced.
But neither we know what needs to be replaced iin the near future... I'd say you know better what has to be replaced soon, when you work with it every day, than on the tractor you just got.

woodbeef · Jan 18, 2004

Yes Doc,that 8080a has a Steyr engine not MWM in it.

Renze · Jan 18, 2004

O.K. but MWM built them too... Steyr developed them but produced them in co-operation with MWM, i was thinking...

When did this engine start it's productional life ?

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