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news New Zetor 2024 "Series 6" (maybe Forterra) 120-171 hp is coming!

On Zeme Zivitelka fair, Ceske Budejovice, CZ, Zetor has announced to introduce a new tractor model with 120-171hp. Zetor North America says it is the new Forterra, available from third quarter of 2024. What is clear is that it has a completely new cab, but we will follow what details will be publicized in the next week.

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As can be seen, it has a steel sickle above the mudguard, like the Proxima.

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This is because the cabs have been placed higher on Crystal and Forterra to improve operator visibility, which left a bigger gap between tire and mudguard at the back, with the previous cab.

Possibly this allows for more room above the wheels to install the more ergonomic hydraulic control levers of the Proxima in the HSX too.

Other noticeable change is the doors are bigger, the B pillar of the cab is moved roughly 20cm back, and the door hinges are different.

Will this new Forterra have a Deutz TCD 4.1 up to 171hp ? Or will the Forterra be available in both 4 and 6 cylinder like Deutz-Fahr ? We will report as soon as more news comes out...

Because of the current price level of the Forterra, ergonomic or technical flaws are not permissible for Zetor, even at basic spec tractors they require to have their ergonomics (placement and logic of the controls, feel, noise, vibration, harshness) spic and span...

Spotted by Forum member twan hag
This message edited with new information 30-08 9:45pm
 
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Maybe it would even be advisable to forgo your own gearboxes instead of the engines. As long as you don't have any unique selling points, in my opinion, your own gearboxes make even less sense than your own engines. ;)
Thats more or less my point: They can drop engines or they can drop transmissions, but not both only half. Dropping 2/3 of the engine production by going Deutz with Major and Proxima makes the Forterra HSX engine economically unfeasible. Production numbers will just drop too low to break even.

And next to that, the product need to stand out in the market. That can be because of an in house developed engine, or transmission. Fendt did it with the 600 series by having their cab ergonomics tip top, but Zetor really has a long way coming if ergonomics should become their unique selling point... We no longer live in the 80s, all the competition has its ergonomics in order nowadays...

And beating Deutz-Fahr on fuel consumption isnt hard: Put that TCD 6.1 in a Major and it will have even less driveline loss. Just dont ask how long the rear end will last then... the Crystal has little driveline friction because its undersized for the HP
 
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How is Zetor supposed to survive on the market with too small a margin for its own engines?
Do they ?

What i dont understand is that they invested a lot in 16V heads and Stage 5 emissions, and now they have achieved the last emission hurdle, they quit... I mean you cannot set up a new plant for 3000 engines a year, but what they have is money already spent and every engine they build is return on this investment... They have had CR engines on the testbench for years, they built functional test models of a DSG transmission for years... And now 13 years later we're still going to build a Maxterra with only German components? What a defeatist attitude ! Valmet had the 905 as biggest model in 1989 and had MF build bigger models for them, untill they could develop them themself... they built a solid reputation between purchasing Volvo BM, and being bought by Agco...

I find it more logical to put Bosch CR on the Zetor engine to capitalise on investments made in the past, but i understand Brno never produced a six cylinder (the Crystal 6 pot was built in Martin) so therefor it would be more logical to utilise the foundry, stamping plant and machining plant to build rear ends. Especially because rear ends will stay even if diesel engines become hydrogen fueled.

The only thing that would be conceivable for me is a modular system with 3, 4 and 6 cylinder engines with 3.7, 4.9 and 7.4 liter displacement, for example. to then cover a range from 50 to a maximum of 220 HP. Major, Proxima, Forterra and the “smaller” Crystal could use the kit. For the very smaller models and the larger ones with 220-300 hp, you would probably need a 6-cylinder engine with a displacement of more than 8 liters in order to do without expensive bells and whistles such as bi-turbo.

FPT sells the NEF 67 with 286hp on a single turbo with waste gate. The absence of EGR works wonders on the engine, but you need CR in order to keep NoX in check without EGR. It lasts too, where the Deutz TCD6.1 with twin turbos and 286hp needs a rebuild every 5000hrs in heavy use. (Deutz gave Fendt a good reason to abandon that German engine they swore their customers to keep, and use an in house Agcopower engine)

Zetor has to work with what they have, developing an all new engine family is out of the question. so i would think of Common Rail 3.1 liter 3 cylinder up to 120hp in Major and Proxima, the 4 cylinder 4.2 liter up to 155hp in the Forterra and the 6 cylinder up to 240hp in the Crystal. I would also unify the Forterra range by stripping the 3rd powershift step and the powershuttle from the HSX to be used in the CL. This way they can upscale the production batches for castings, gears, shafts, as well as sheetmetal, piping, front driveshaft, for the Forterra. With a 7 ton rear axle, this rear end could be sold to Agrale in Brazil or as whole tractor to Africa or as assembly kit to Antar. Just a bare tractor without electronic control, like ZF sells to Brazil too.

I mean, SDF isnt that big either, yet they decided to restart their own engine production for Stage 3B when the tumult in the market, created by quickly succeeding emission standards, stabilised...

Zetor already threw away a lot of assets by not offering a tractor that would keep dealers aboard 15 years ago, if they throw away an engine or a transmission every couple of years too, soon they will be like the Polish assembly shops that went bankrupt in the past few years: Using expensive components but not having any brand status, so you have to compete with Deutz Fahr on price, making profit margins paper thin.. Even when the accountants are right, a customer wants brand recognition too !
 
I see this mainly from a German perspective - here you hardly have any workshops that are familiar with real Zetor components. Many Zetor workshops are more like garden tool dealers.

I also don't like to see Zetor install a Deutz. But realistically, you also have to keep an eye on the service network. We have a workforce (shortage of skilled workers) in Germany and fewer and fewer people want to get their hands dirty while working. As a result, further training costs time and money.
If I install brands that are well-known on the market, you have more synergy effects for the workshops and it gives dealers and workshops the opportunity to reduce costs.

How many dealers only make Zetor? ;)
Most will have at least a second brand in their range.

Of course I would like to see a Maxterra with a 6-cylinder Zetor engine and Zetor DSG - but that doesn't seem too realistic to me at the moment - unfortunately.

In the end, unfortunately, you have to say - no matter how animatedly we discuss it, Zetor does what Zetor wants and unfortunately, in the future too, it will only rarely respond to customer requests and if so, it will be very delayed. Perhaps this would be a point that Zetor should address promptly: service, service network and customer communication.
 
I see that meanwhile Zetor gives 6500kg rear axle rating on the Crystal: I think it is an 85mm axle, where Deere allows 7000kg on an 86mm so they might still be a bit conservative in their rating.
Anyways, 6500kg is fine for the HSX 140. 150hp and up, needs a bigger axle.

I also don't like to see Zetor install a Deutz. But realistically, you also have to keep an eye on the service network. We have a workforce (shortage of skilled workers) in Germany and fewer and fewer people want to get their hands dirty while working. As a result, further training costs time and money.
If I install brands that are well-known on the market, you have more synergy effects for the workshops and it gives dealers and workshops the opportunity to reduce costs.
My brother in laws younger brother worked for a Case dealership: When there was a problem with a Case CVX (in the time before New Holland made their own and the ZF-Steyr CVX was still a fairly new tractor) a ZF specialist came to assist in the repair. Even large dealers didnt have the specific knowledge untill they learned the tricks from ZF service technicians and they had CVX gearboxes opened more often.

So, the argument that ZF is more familiar is not really valid when dealers call in the local ZF service point. In wheel loader transmissions, ZF Netherlands could rebuild transmissions, they would change every single part because they werent really sure about themself. But we could do it much cheaper and even rebuilt ZF transmissions for JCB dealers because we only replaced what was broken, or worn more than 25% (which was usually just two or three parts) which would make it run for another 10 to 20.000hrs.

Zetor importers need those specialists too, to assist dealers. Not just the garden dealerships they are left with, but also the professional dealerships that they have lost in the past 20 years. One of Zetors largest dealers in Holland was also hired by other dealers to repair transmissions. They even repaired a 10540 transmission shipped to and from Holland, from a Canadian customer because local dealers were clueless ! This dealer is now no longer Zetor.

Maybe Zetor needs a remanufacturing scheme like John Deere or Fendt. Send the box to Czechia for rebuild. As in the wheel loader transmission example, companies that do it once a month can do it way faster and efficient than a shop who isnt sure of what they are doing and therefor replaces every part as a precaution.

How many dealers only make Zetor? ;)
Most will have at least a second brand in their range.
Here ? All of them. Those who had Zetor as a second brand, let go when all the major manufacturers started to build economy tractors.

Those who had Zetor as a first brand (and sold a new tractor every week in the 80s), well Zetor has left them on their own, so they also gave in to the pressure of the larger brand who wants exclusivity from their dealers. Zetor was not worth risking to loose their other dealership over, when Zetor only has a basic product offering up to 140hp.

Nonetheless, the Crystal Agropoland 260 was as expensive as a Magnum MX270, and 20.000 Euro cheaper than a Deutz Agrotron 260 with the same components. Therefor it was unable to compete in the market.

Therefor i am afraid that a Zetor with only German components will have the same problem... When compared to a Deutz Fahr, the customer gladly pays 20.000 euro more for the better resale value and better dealer of Deutz, or the better resale value and better service from the Magnum for the same price.
I am afraid that ZF takes the profit while Zetor makes the struggle...

Zetor has no machining centers to machine six pot blocks, that line was set up in ZTS Martin in the 70s. So going for Deutz engines and stopping engine development entirely, i get that. But i am afraid that with a component tractor, all profit goes to ZF (they know damn well that they are the only independent OEM supplier in the market) while Zetor has a foundry and a machining hall for rear ends, with way more capacity than the 3000 tractors they build nowadays. The bottom line for the Zetor production facility will degrade too, the more they buy from elsewhere. In order to make Proxima and Forterra production more profitable, they need more turnover, buy steel ingots for the foundry in larger batches for less money, operate the machining centers in two or three shifts instead of just the day shift, just create economy of scale.

They could also cooperate with ZF on transmissions, like Fendt did with the Favorit 500 series: They bought powershuttle and powershift modules and electronic control units from ZF, and produced the gears, castings and rear axles themself.

Even just license building the rear ends in Brno is an option, create critical mass for the purchase department, so that their own production (Proxima, Forterra) becomes more profitable.

If they really want to be cool they co-develop with ZF, and ZF starts to sell their own version to OEM customers after a year so Zetor has the premiere. Although i believe ZF created this 6F/3R powershift in order to get people to buy a CVT instead, they cant match Deeres DirectDrive or Case Octoshift. A 30 speed close ratio Zetor DSG would instead diminish demand for a CVT option, so i dont know if ZF is even interested in a DSG that eats into CVT sales...

What i envision is 5 DSG gears with a two speed powershift in front, for instant gear change when the load changes suddenly: Where Deeres DirectDrive stalls when you take a run before climbing the silo with a heavy trailer and the engine lugs down when it starts to climb the heap because the computer expects acceleration and preselected the next higher gear, this variant would first shift down the powershift which signals the DSG to immediately preselect the next lower DSG gear, giving way more time to predict and preselect a next DSG gear.
This would have 60kmh top speed (or 50 at reduced engine speed) and gear spacing of 1.156 like the Forterra powershift, so with 10 speeds you get 15.5 to 60kmh speeds in high range. Then we start middle range at 21kmh, overlapping 3 speeds with high range. 10 speeds down covers 5.7 to 21kmh, covering all cultivating, ploughing mowing and baling, and most important: Allowing you to take off with a heavy silage trailer on a hill with all four wheels spinning without the engine stalling, like the Forterra does.. (you dont want to pull out into the road from the field in low range, then change ranges at standstill in the middle of traffic. Or drive all the way to the road in low range because middle range starts too high to take off in, in a muddy field, which was a problem with MF's original Dynashift) Then in low range we start with 7.5kmh, again 3 speeds overlap with middle range, giving speeds from 2 to 7.5kmh for all PTO driven harrows.
When the customer wants super crawl gears for deep spading machines and other specialty jobs, offer a crawl group with speeds of 2.7 to .7kmh.

In my lifetime i have never used a lower gear than low range 3rd on a UR1 with a 3 meter rotary harrow, which is about 2.3kmh with 60hp on a 3 meter harrow... I went so slow because i had no more power, (1000rpm rotavator driven at 540rpm) and at this point, there was no difference in power consumption between 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear low range so i worked in 3rd. So 2kmh is slow enough for 99% of all agricultural uses, and civil contractors who want slower, e.g. with forest choppers, would want CVT and dont buy Zetor either, Zetor doesnt have to invest in this niche. So 3 ranges from 2 to 60kmh with 3 speeds overlap between ranges suits the bill for 99.9% of customers.

If a crawl gear is fitted, one can also create the field range from 3 to 11kmh which allows for decent headland speed when turning on the headland whilst power harrowing. Then the crawl range would stretch from 1 to 4kmh..
 
Anyways, Zetor Polska is preparing Agro Show Bednary, and the new model will be shown there too:
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Photographed partially from the side so we cannot tell the rear end by the axle tubes or the 3pt lift external cylinders, which would identify ZF or existing Forterra. We do see a lot of hydraulic piping on the back.. For service accessibility this is a good spot for the external hydraulic valves.

Also the notch in the rear windshield, i only see it on the right, so either i see it wrong, or this notch is intended as a cable throughput for implement control boxes and the such, in a pre-cut foam rubber block.
 
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Another photo from Zetor Poland: You can see this is a substantially heavier rear axle, look at those planetaries !! Even though the ring gear does not look wider than a Forterra, the diameter is huge. Whether it is a ZF rear end i am about 95% sure, though i dont see the external lift cylinders which are common on ZF supplied transaxles. However the PTO stub bolted to a flange, is a typical ZF trait...

The notch in the lower right corner of the rear window, seems to follow the height of the right hand control console though, and not have foam rubber cable throughput blocks.
 
Yes, the stub looks mounted in a similar way to how I know it from ZF transmissions.

But what still surprises me:
still no official news about this new series, hardly any news on news portals or other forums.
Why doesn't Zetor use the new model for more advertising or do they only want to "officially" present it at a larger trade fair and are therefore holding back on making news?
 
New photo from inside the new Zetor Forterra Series (finally ;) ) from Marko Jelić from our Facebook site:
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Source:
View: https://www.facebook.com/groups/zetorworld/permalink/2511698502324678/

To me, the interior design doesn't look finished yet (I hope so) but it does allow for new speculation about the gearbox used. :unsure:

The notch in the lower right corner of the rear window, seems to follow the height of the right hand control console though, and not have foam rubber cable throughput blocks.
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I see it - you not? ;)

I reuploaded a more sharp version of the photo in your posting - so its better to see. :)

though i dont see the external lift cylinders which are common on ZF supplied transaxles.
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Its a ZF gear box, the external lift cylinders are to see when you zoom in. :cool:
 
New photo from inside the new Zetor Forterra Series (finally ;) ) from Marko Jelić from our Facebook site:
View attachment 380
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We see four external remotes, tucked away nicely.

Also the joystick known from the Forterra HD.
I can only speak for dairy farms, but here, people only need two electrohydraulic functions on the joystick: one controlling the front 3pt lift to lift the mower (front-back) and one to control the rear mower folding (left-right) when you have a fully floating front mower, the joystick should control the cylinders that pull the mower up from the float springs.

The slurry tank with applicator has its own electric control box and the self loading silage wagon too. Even the rake has (although raking isnt a job for a brand new 170hp tractor, there are a couple of 60-70hp tractors around that do it cheaper)

About arable farming, i couldnt tell their tractor needs, apart from more axle carrying capacity to carry rotor harrow and seeder/planter combinations. Maybe some headland management that starts the PTO as soon as you drop the front lift, then drops the rear lift and starts the rear PTO too, i dont know, in my area we dont have heavy soils and we dont sow crops with fine seeds, so nobody seeds with two power harrows here...

Anyways, the poster of this video says the cab wasnt done yet, they 3D printed the panels just to be able to show a mockup on the fair. So if Zetor goes with Deutz and ZF, (with the sales price that goes with that) the only thing they could create a competitive edge with, is unfinished... 🤷‍♂️
 
Furthermore, a 4-speed gearbox in combination with a 6-speed multiplier, which will offer better utility properties both in transport and during demanding field work.
... sounds interesting and gives more infos about the new used gearbox from ZF.

I think we then talk about the TPT 16 or TPT 20 tractor gearbox from ZF:
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  • 8.500 kg rear axle (? or TPT 20 with 9.200 kg ?)
  • 40 kmh eco or 50 kmh
  • ...
:unsure:
 
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... sounds interesting and gives more infos about the new used gearbox from ZF.

I think we then talk about the TPT 16 or TPT 20 tractor gearbox from ZF:
View attachment 486
  • 8.500 kg rear axle (? or TPT 20 with 9.200 kg ?)
  • 40 kmh eco or 50 kmh
  • ...
:unsure:
Its the TPT16 i reckon. 4 gears means no 50kmh eco, but 40km eco. In most countries 50kmh gives added expenses in insurance, technical MOT/TüV checks so if it saves money, this is good. 40kmh at 1200rpm doesnt make sense anyways, theres no power this low and it doesnt save fuel that low.

ZF gives their approval based on input torque, not power, and therefor always keeps some reserve in the hp numbers they mention in the sales brochure.

Also, max input power is 8% less than max engine power, and it states 8-12% power boost possible.

Loaded tire radius is 875mm which means 650/65R42 is possible. I dont know if Zetors new cab is suitable for this.

They now prototype a 4 cylinder which is not what the market is interested in: They want a 6 pot, with the TPT 20 rear end they can build 210hp which is what they need as a minimum to be a serious partner for any dealership. This four cylinder is already 90% of that development, so lets see how soon it comes.

The four cylinder needs a wheelbase between the Forterra HD and HSX, somewhere around 2.65. The question is whether this new series will replace the Forterra HD too ? It makes no sense spreading potential sales of one market segment over two series. Engine power from 120 to 171hp could mean the HSX is dropped too ?

MF stops its 6S series at 210hp or 220 with boost, if Zetor can match that TCD6.1 and TPT20 with the wheelbase of the current Crystal they are good. (Deutz 6210 is TPT20 without boost, 6230 is TPT20 with boost) The wheelbase of the current Crystal is good for the 160-210hp six pot range. A future Super series would need the TMT 25 and 27 rear ends with a 2.95 wheelbase and an FPT NEF67 engine from 200 to 286hp. Above that, they need to sell rebadged Versatile tractors 280-360hp through their network, and appoint key dealers as technology centers to supply and support local sub-dealers (which are mostly garden dealerships nowadays)

The big question is, will it be cheaper than a New Holland? If it is more expensive than a New Holland, the New Holland dealer wins over the garden dealerships Zetor has left in Western Europe. Even when 90% of the people buy extras such as automatic range shift, a dealer must be able to mention a base price under that of the large and well established New Holland dealer. I think the new cab with four mechanical spool valves and two electric on the joystick, is perfect in price vs comfort. In basic trim level i would even go to just four mechanical spools, most machines have their own electrohydraulic control box and spool valves on the machine itself, to save hydraulic hoses. Then the 4 way joystick standard in tractors with front 3pt or front loader, and two mechanical spools. Four mechanical spools plus two on the joystick optional.

Succes really depends on, can they offer a base spec tractor cheaper than New Holland, while still offering some nice to have features that make repetitive handlings easier, like the electronic hydraulic joystick ? Things that make sense, it must have, because it sells tractors. Things that dont make sense, like six external valves, only add to the base price.
 
Either way, it looks like they are on the right track this time: The electrohydraulic joystick makes mowing with front and rear mowers, or a front loader, a joy. Or working with a pull type forage chopper. A dumptrailer tailgate can be done with the mechanical spools, electronic valves really dont give any advantage for infrequently used functions.

The 6 speed powershift equals MF Dyna6 which is great. When MF introduced the Dyna6, the number of MF sold with DynaVT (Vario) dropped significantly, which means that it is a much appreciated spec level between the classic 32/32 Dynashift with 4 powershifts, and the CVT.

This new model would render both the Forterra HD and the Crystal obsolete. I dont think Zetor sold many of those anyways, in relation to the HSX, so the drop in production of transmissions in Brno will be marginal: Or even increase when the new series attracts new dealerships that see progress at Zetor, and begin to retake market share over the full line.

Especially in North America, there will always be a market for a HSX spec tractor used primarily as a loader tractor on large cattle farms, which runs the snow blower in winter and the slurry agitator in summer. That type of customer really doesnt care about more powershift steps, they care about a hydraulic shuttle and would even buy it if it didnt have powershift, but just that comfortable electrohydraulic joystick for a front loader... When Zetor offers a 210hp field tractor for these farms, this large loader tractor market also gets within reach 😉

Now Forterra HD and Crystal become obsolete, its also time to unify the remaining Forterre CL and HSX: i propose to cancel the 24/18 transmission, and introduce a version of the 5 speed transmission with 10 speeds and hydraulic powershuttle for aforementioned North American front loader tractors, and a 20/20 transmission with synchro shuttle and two speed powershift to replace the 24/18 transmission in the CL for Eastern Europe. Maybe even a 10/10 transmission with synchro shuttle for Antar or Agrale...
 
Zetor replies on Facebook to the question if this new model will be 50kmh:

"The current models are 40kmh, a 50kmh version will follow 6 months later"

The ZF 5 range, 6 powershift transmission runs 72kmh unrestricted. Or 50 at 1500rpm or 40 at 1200rpm.

Because Zetor has to compete with the price of New Hollands ElectroCommand 4 range, 4 powershift transmission, it makes sense to introduce a cheaper base model with 4 ranges and 6 powershifts, that runs 40kmh at, say 1800rpm.
In wheel loader transmissions, ZF offered at least two gear ratios for every gear, to specify a version tailored to the customers wishes. So it is not impossible that Zetor gets their own unique version of the ZF box with 4 groups, that are spread for less overlap in the less important speed range and 40kmh eco (50 unrestricted) instead of 50 eco (72 untestricted)
If that saves cost to meet the price of New Hollands ElectroCommand T6.175 that would give them a chance !

Especially for the lower powered models at 120hp, it just doesnt make sense to drive 40kmh at 1200rpm because the transmission will be shifting all the time to maintain speed at the slightest inclination.
Highway trucks cruise at 1200rpm, but they have 450 to 500 horsepower with 44 ton and drive on highways, not 120 to 170 with 25 ton on local roads with junctions and corners every 500 meter..
 
Interesting fact: Instead of the ZF backend used on earlier Agrotron, Deutz-Fahr in 2017 replaced the 120-130-140hp Agrotrons with models with a Same backend, 3 powershift, 5 gears, 30/30 exactly the HSX. Apparently, the market will still buy a 3 stage powershift in this power segment, even from Deutz Fahr.

Zetor talks of 120-171hp models, is that just the new one with ZF backend, or does that include existing 120-130-140 Forterras with this new cab ?

 
I think the new "Mod 2023+" series will replace the than old Forterra series in the future. All others makes no sense in my eyes.
 
I think the new "Mod 2023+" series will replace the than old Forterra series in the future. All others makes no sense in my eyes.
The Forterra HSX at its introduction, was almost as expensive than the better equipped New Holland T6 series back then. The dealer said that he had never lost a sale based on price before.

I have no idea what the price will be with a ZF transaxle.... i am afraid it will be more expensive, unless Zetor indeed replaces all Forterra production with it so they can buy mass, at higher discount than Crystal Agrpoland used to get...

Off course ZF is making a tailored transmission for Zetor, with 4 speeds instead of five to be able to offer a more cost effective 40kmh base model. (Cheaper than Deutz)

They also said that the HSX would keep a Zetor engine... ZF also offers no alternative for the Forterra Classic, they definately cant beat that price. Either way, if they keep producing the Forterra rear end they need to unify the Classic and the HSX, 30/30 powershuttle HSX and 20/20 synchro shuttle Classic based on the same wheelbase, hoods, 4wd driveshafts, etcetera.
 

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